But if you're a malkioni... all you have is FAITH.
> In Gloranthan terms, this is an incorrect statement. It is the statement of an
outsider. And by using the word, we load it with the baggage of our language
/// Yeah I do. With gusto. With all my luggage, to get myself and my players
feel the world I describe, react to it faster and easier. I don't need or want
to build my world from scratch. Of course I bring to it my luggage.
> In fact, as a Malkioni, more than the modern term of "faith" is known: Joy
> is an experience they also have requirements: right action etc is necessary to
properly live int he world
/// Joy, Right Action, all are facets of Faith. But what about the rokari, who
deny the power of Joy ? I think blind obedience to the Laws doesn't make a good
enough substitute.
In RW, Religious Faith is "a firm trust in things that one hopes, a
demonstration of things one cannot see" (Hebrews 11-1).
> The Hebriac Bible is one expression of Faith, but not the only one.
> > I do think that contemporary, western intellectuals like us
> > > don't have any idea what FAITH is.
I would correct this to say that contemporary Westerners do not have a clue
about what Spirituality is, whether faith-based or not. It is rather amusing
to see all the effort tha Dawkins and his ilk pour into condemning religion
when all they exhibit is a loathing for Monotheism, as if that constituted
the only modern expression of spirituality
/// OK, but I wanted to be more specific : we westerners have lost Faith as part
of our "cultural keyword". Intellectual like us can blabber about budhism,
shamanism and whatever, but the truth is most of us haven't set foot in a church
or sung a sincere prayer since we were kids... Thus my "blind man" metaphor
below.
When I read what we say about faith, it strikes me as blind men discussing colors. We cannot imagine what it means to live by, to feel FAITH.
> I agree that this is so, when Faith is used to refer to someone else's
> religious interpretation.
> But I believe that every westerner, whether he has active condemnation or
> just ignorance as a reason, has Faith. It is just that modern people
> associate Faith with spirituality and condemn it, but have simply
> transferred that irrational belief to subjects other than religion
/// You're not the only to say that. I've just read a book about the Bible that
says that freedom from faith is an illusion, that man cannot live without faith
of a kind, whether it's in "scientific facts" (which are as much an intellectual
construct as anything else), in him/herself, etc. I find this idea interesting,
and probably true.
We are afraid of people who experience it, we flee them as they feel so odd, "weird" to us.
> Not always. From fanatics, yes, as we all should shun all fanatics
/// No, not always. But don't we feel unease, nervousness in front of any kind
of believer, when we feel the strength of their conviction ? Especially when
they're not fanatics trying to convince us they're right ?
This world view of certainty sounds to me more like the scientific world view. Not that it knows everything, but that it can know everything Science as a religion, called sciencism, is a widespread faith these days in the modern west /// Agreed. Communism was the religious thing for a time, then it croaked and we now have scientism and ecologism as new religions. in Glorantha
Back to Glorantha : in malkioni lands, Faith comes from KNOWLEDGE.
> and your practice, and the miracle of life unfolding before your eyes and in
> your daily life
/// Exactly. Every moment, every facet of creation is a Wonder.
>
> > If you have faith it is all you need.
> need for what?
/// Good point ! I wanted to ask that too.
I suspect that, paradoxically, we will never emulate malkioni life as well as we do the pagans'. Because we do not know Faith.
> Whereas, I guess, we all know theism and animism... :D
/// Absolutely. I've talked to more lunar priests than catholic priests when I
think of it. I have more experience in role-playing in Glorantha than in praying
in a RW church.
You can hate a part of your divine self and deny it totally, spend your life
cursing and denying it, and it will still be there. Doing all that negative
stuff transforms it to its negative self, of course--spirit of reprisal,
curse, broken sword, whatever...
/// Yep. Who needs faith when your deity is IN you, manifests through you. You
FEEL it. You don't even need any organized religion to communicate with it.
The world is alive, anyone can see that. If you communicate with it in (this)
way, it responds in (that) way.
/// Yep. You don't always even need a spirit-talker to communicate with the
world. Some are blessed to See it fully without any intercessor. Who needs Faith
when you can See for yourself.
(snip)
That is our modern economic system not some ancient mythology
You believe in the modern economic system?
I say "you have Faith."
/// And I agree with you it's Faith. I just wonder what to substitute for it
after the last few years !
Powered by hypermail