Peter Metcalfe effectively challenges me to create colorful material for Refuge. I might take up the challenge... provided there are no plans to do anything about that place. With the Lunar Empire, the West, and Prax due for development, I don't expect anything official to come out in that level of detail.
I like the catalogue of questions:
> Were the rulers appointed by Belintar?
> What forces do they have to assert their authority?
> Are the rulers popular, unpopular or do they rule through force along?
> How do they justify their rule?
> What was their reaction to Belintar's demise?
> What are the rulers unpopular for and what happens to people who agitate against them?
This has to be answered for any minor and most major parts of the Holy Country, not just Refuge, but also Karse, Rhigos, God Forgot as a whole, and Caladraland.
The Rightarm Islands, Esrolia and Heortland have been detailed or at least outlined in this regard.
If and when I may tackle Refuge, I'll make sure to give the answers. It will involve quite a bit of work to expand the background information, but that has been true for any campaign setting I have seen so far.
>> Whatever the protection offered then, it was not enough to withstand serious Hendriki magic later, but enough to kill the first Hendriki king attempting to break it.
> Or the King may have just simply been unlucky. People get killed at sieges all the time.
Making this a colorful detail might be more productive than handwaving it...
I'll accept that the Adjustment of parts of Esrolia by the Hendriki went as deeply against the native mythical structure as did Belintar's reforms of Heortland.
> It just dilutes rulership and second class citizens into vague terms that can mean anything except for the particular meaning being discussed.
Quite a lot of glorious conquests and occupations turn out as just such wishy-washy weak things, like the Slontan conquest of Heortland by Lord Danshavalas around 817. http://www.glorantha.com/new/myth/threedocs1.html
> "The Hendriki ruled Esvular" has a specific meaning. If all that the Hendriki did was exert protection money from Esvular then the statement is inaccurate and replaced with a better statement such as "The Hendriki exacted tribute from Esvular". If the tribute was significant and regular, then the statement could be "Esvular was a client state of Hendriki"
Basically, that is what the Foreigner Laws of Aventus amounted to.
> But for the Hendriki to rule Esvular would require that the various Esvulari communities have Hendriki rulers and garrisons just as they had done in Esrolia.
The Adjustment wars were on a scale that was rare in Heortling warfare. The best equivalent I can come up with is the conquest and occupation of Dara Happa in the Gbaji Wars. The EWF period wasn't really Heortling - they performed similarly. Tarkalor's fight against the Kitori might approach this.
The Heortlings usually come in order to defeat a special foe, plunder, and if possible collect a tribute for some time. Usually they lack the leadership and the resources to hang on to a conquest; when such leaders appear and last long enough, the kernel of an empire can be founded.
> > The incident of Delelsus the Spellman, the brass horse rider from southernmost Esvular who wanted to be king, takes place in 1190. Our disagreement here is whether this guy is an Aeolian or rather a God Forgotten, not that he ended up gathering the Esvulari (of whichever definition) under his banner.
> What disagreement? I haven't mentioned Delelsus at all in the post that you are responding to.
No, it was one post earlier:
> Around 1190 ST, Esvular is strong under the leadership of Delesus and the threat is put down with great difficulty.
I took the time to read this up in detail before reacting. Yes, I did put my observations on the Wikia in the meantime. The disagreement is that you state that he is an Esvulari. The text doesn't say so - he could be an Esvulari, a God Forgotten or a Hendriki. Rather than the Esvulari being exceptionally strong in his time, the Hendriki underwent eight years of kingless anarchy during which Delelsus hires Esvulari in his campaign for the crown of the Hendriki and pays them with cattle looted in the southern borderlands.
> > In God Forgot, the reverse would be proven true - the God Learners with their evangelistic zeal chose not to spread the word of Makan to the Leftarm Islanders, but instead channel their ways into inventiveness.
> Not so.
> The local Ingareens, who had accepted the _Abiding Book_ amidst their Zzaburite neighbors, invited a band of Jrusteli missionaries to their lands on Kostern Island.
> Middle Sea Empire p47.
Interesting. So we have Zzaburite Ingareens (those of Talar Hold and Refuge, and presumably of Casino Town when it exists) and non-Zzaburite, mainstream Malkioni Ingareens at this time.
> Given that much of the alleged development is related to events unique to the Thieves World universe, I fear the task of translating the characters will be a case to too much work required, too little to show for it.
I would carefully steer clear from the dark age of Sanctuary which is indeed unique to that setting and replace it with events from the Hero Wars timeline. There are sufficient parallels to make the effort worthwhile to me. It is entirely possible that the events I want to transform took place in several of the books you did not read.
Having standard fantasy tropes in Glorantha is not a bad thing per se - Glorantha is a daunting place to enter with players who have been fed on standard tropes for decades of their gaming career. That was what the classics Rick mentioned in his blog were about. I know for sure that I can't sell my players a clan-based campaign. I ought to be able to sell them a ship-based game (looking forward to the Harreksaga), and a city-based game (maybe Pavis can do the trick in its new guise).
Powered by hypermail