RE: Re: Is Spell Trading the hallmark of a vampire squid?

From: chris jensen romer <chrisjensenromer_at_QXIdQ92J2FjltzUSqeXl-LUh6rx8VYuChQv166yzzB2GpA4J6RI_66hYyf4>
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 03:53:16 +0000

The idea of Corporeal ghosts like the draugr mentioned earlier were common in Scandinavian culture till the late middle ages. The Bylands fragment has some English examples. The term ghost is immensely complex -- but we move away from Glorantha here! Still if anyone wants a technical discussion on ghosts in different early Earth cultures feel free to email me off list -- its my field :)

Cj x

To: WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com
From: richaje_at_X8HiJMkxRHFO_4QYLLOu8kEx2euAvCgAVCLl5ZW0NRO1GJle1w4giv63pwqcf6QqBOmn6oOVP1gZWw.yahoo.invalid Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:39:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Is Spell Trading the hallmark of a vampire squid?          

      
      
      > > That's a byproduct of the RQ rules (sorry RQ fans, but in many ways the rules system did not track the setting particularly well - especially when it came to magic). A ghost who haunts the population is not the same thing as a hero who still defends the population. Not at all. Only foolish philosophers mix that up.

> >

>

> It is not an artifact of the RQ rules system at all. It is an artifact of the English language. In English, a 'ghost' is any spirit of the dead that interacts with the living, and ghosts would be regarded as undead. In Glorantha, there is a big distinction between spirits of the dead and undead monsters, regardless of game system.

A spirit is not undead, even if it is the spirit of someone who died. A "ghost" is the spirit of the dead that haunts the living - it is not necessarily undead (and usually isn't, I suspect). It might be a part of the soul that refuses to take the Path of the Dead, or maybe it might be cursed by a magician or god, but probably isn't the horrible perversion of Life that is Undead.

FWIW, the English (and German) word "ghost" did not have have a terribly fixed meaning until quite late in history. It ranged from meaning "spirit", "anima", and even "mind" ("Geist" in German covers spirit, mind, and ghost).

Jeff

> So, I think your suggestion that 'ghost' is a good synonym for 'undead' is a poor one. Yes, this issue is further complicated by ghost having a specific meaning in RQ, but the RQ use is a reflection of the issue, not its origin.

>

> >> Orlanthi do, however, not consider spirits of the dead that have simply not gone on to the Courts of Silence to be Unlife. Many spirits of the dead that we might consider ghosts are not considered undead at all IMO.

> >

> > Of course not. They are not walking dead things but the spirits of the dead. Completely different.

>

> Which is why 'ghost' is a poor choice of term for 'undead' monster, given its literal meaning is 'spirit of the dead'.

> Cheers

>

> David

>
                                                                       

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]