In relation to how Trolls might behave towards Chaos if Illuminated, surely there are lessons to be learned from Oddi the Keen, the Storm Bull-worshipping chieftain who becomes illuminated during the Reminiscences of Paulis (in Cults of Terror/Gloranthan Classics: Cult Compendium), but who reputedly ended his days drawn into an unholy alliance with the Chaotics in Dorastor against the encroaching Lunars.
I wouldn't say that Oddi ever liked Chaos, but maybe the detachment of Illumination allowed him to play realpolitik with Chaotic fores and ally with the one he could beat on his own so as to use them as shock troops against the one he probably couldn't beat on his own?
The Troll hatred of Chaos is unarguable, but surely it is no greater than that of the Storm Bull
That said I think there must be something about the Troll mind/culture which made it curiously resistant to (and well-equipped to combat) Nysalorean Illumination -- why else would Arkat have become a Troll during the Gbaji Wars?
Though maybe it is also as simple as the dichotomy between Darkness and Light, complete with some of the inferences previous contributors have drawn upon in terms of Light tending towards refinement(?) whereas Darkness tends towards something more primal?
Richard Hayes
From: Daniel <von_das_at_AlNjln5MpvL59q6LHQ4VK032QNbMRRNJwKqYkLlsBv249vUUwCqKW2eioNb12saYBybyFwavOEoS.yahoo.invalid>
To: WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2012, 8:42
Subject: Re: Troll illumination
Another potentially interesting perspective for this that just occurred to me - the idea of needing to "kill your mother" (as well as the Buddha and whoever else might have place inside your heart that would get in the way of your own self - metaphorically, of course) in Zen Buddhism. Certainly something that might be especially relevant for the mystic liberation of an Uz from his (or her) matriarchal culture!
>
> Some possibly useful points to consider here...
>
> I'm not sure if Light and Illumination are really coincidental. Darkness and Light are opposites, and Darkness is connected with collectivism (or oneness, or whatever you prefer to call it) while Light is connected with individualism. Illumination is generally connected to individual liberation from collective obligations; this really does pretty clearly put it on the Light side of the spectrum. This does not necessarily mean it is impossible for a troll, and perhaps trolls have some different path of mystic enlightenment that ultimately leads in the same direction. But Illumination as we know it really does not seem to be "neutral" in this one case, and may be harder for a troll to attain.
>
> Both Illumination and Light are also associated with intellectualism while Darkness has strong ties with primal instincts.
>
> Also, Illumination reconciles one with Chaos, to some extent, while trolls are extremely opposed to it as part of their (Darkness-induced) nature.
>
> Would an Illuminated troll no longer feel this hatred for Chaos? Would he lose his ties with Darkness - as sometimes happens? Perhaps an Uz could attain Illumination, but then he will no longer be considered one of Uz...
>
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "boztakang" <daniel.mccluskey@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <von_das@> wrote:
> > >
> > > One other, slightly related question that has just occurred to me - can trolls be illuminated? On one hand, it seems like it would have to be possible, and certainly Arkat was an illuminate who became a troll, presumably without losing that state of illumination.
> > >
> > > But on the other hand, it certainly doesn't sound right, though that might be because trolls and anything with "light" in it don't go well.
> > >
> > > Do we have any examples of illuminated trolls, other than Arkat?
> > >
> >
> > I believe that Sandy Peterson has mentioned on the digest at some point that troll illumination is relatively common, but in this rare case, i think he was probably (at least partially) incorrect.
> >
> > I'm pretty strongly of the opinion that trolls cannot be "illuminated" in the sense that humans are. Their brains are different than ours, and IMO not susceptible to the full impact of illumination as we understand it (both for good and bad) I think that some of the insights of illumination are blindingly obvious to all trolls, and others are utterly incomprehensible to them at a [biological/fundamental mythical] level.
> >
> > The best published example i think is Mistress the Last in Dorastor, who clearly has no shortage of opportunities for illumination, yet is still firmly bound by her promises to Kyger Litor in a very non-illuminated sort of way.
> >
> > I'm afraid I still don't understand Arkat well enough to make any sort of strong judgement from his case. My gut feeling is that part of his motivation to become a troll was to gain resistance to Nysalor's more dangerous ideas, which could be seen as a hiatus in illumination, possibly, but I can't say I know of any solid evidence to support me.
> >
> > Also note that my opinions are based on the outlook of trolls from a Dagori Inarth/Halakiv background... I've not spent a lot of time thinking about the Blue Moon trolls, for whom illumination/sevening might be most relevant.
> >
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]