Re: Troll illumination

From: Richard Hayes <richard_hayes29_at_MHK9ydfkqmsfHbxGpqGaNujI27gFp2BIwuRlIyRODSnSqxViWkzWNA3LpFry>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:33:21 +0000 (GMT)

Thought-provoking. I agree that the Nysalor cult written up in Cults of Terror and Dorastor is a mystical "Way" (is that the right word for them?) rather than a conventional Cult, Spirit Practice, Church or School

I also agree that other mystic methods are about understanding Cosmos, the antithesis of Chaos. Though most mystics seek to transcend Cosmos, whereas Nysalorean mysticism seeks to transcend the divide between Chaos and Cosmos (hence its appeal to the "We are all us" Lunar faith), without obviously taking it to the next level  that orthodox mystics ultimately go to --  to deny reality in order to transcend it.

Not sure whether all mystics' transcendence includes a Nysaloresque accommodation with Chaos. There are arguments for and against. Maybe to an advanced mystic shunning Chaos and shunning the hatred of Chaos are just aspects of believing that "the world is too much with us"? I could sort-of see it in Draconic mysticism though -- Draconism traditionally neither embraces Chaos nor seeks to oppose it.

Initially I was not at all convinced that all forms of mystic enlightenment confer the wider benefits of Nysalorean Illumination. However the more I thought about it, the less sure I was that maybe Lord Hennamono (sorry I can't remember your real name) wasn't onto something here.

Riddling is special to Nysalor. Maybe some other Ways also have something like this, but it won't be compulsory.

Against Canon, I still think that a system of advanced magic which uses this world as its Other World should be distinct from other advanced systems which use other Other Worlds, and this probably should be reflected in different mechanics. In my vague, half-formed idea of mysticism (and particularly Draconic mysticism) as a separate magic system in RQ, one key mechanic in most/all forms of mysticism is that (mis)using mysticism to affect this world reduces the mystic's Mysticism (specific way)%.

I still like the example from Hero Wars of how these four magic systems move a heavy rock -- a Heortling theist emulates Barntar and gains some of his strength by doing so; a wizard computes a complex formula that allows him to move the rock telekinetically; an animist summons a spirit that can lift the rock for him (or at least can help him to do so); and a mystic lifts the heavy rock by denying that the rock is heavy so it becomes easier to lift.

I would also expect that each mystic Way to have a skill/ability denoting how far a mystic has got towards mastering their Way (as well as another skill/ability denoting meditation, and maybe other abilities through which they turned their focus outwards onto the world -- dance, martial arts,  arts and crafts, etc.). The totally inward-looking mystics would not need much writing up because their Way is not good for MGF.

FWIW my other ideas for mystic mechanics are a mish-mash of MRQ draconic magic, some detailed unofficial Mysticism rules I saw on the internet years ago (written by Sandy Petersen? Can't remember), the Ki skills from Land of the Ninja (Avalon Hill's non -Gloranthan sourcebook on Medieval/early modern Japan) and some of the ideas from the Mysticism rules in Hero Wars adapted for RQ.

Moving back to Nysalorean mysticism, to me it would be an unconventional mystic Way -- it probably wouldn't confer many/any powers that could be misused in this way, but equally Nysalorean mystics could not erode their own grasp of their Way by misusing their powers. This is because its idea of transcendence would be unconventional -- though I might allow advanced Nysaloreans the Hero Wars-style ability to deny/renounce things.

Is it possible that one "enlightened" mystic can, over time, see whether any other given person is also an "enlightened" mystic, even if they are of another school? (Kind of an extension of the Nysalorean benefit that one can identify other Illuminates) Though presumably magicians with some form of magical sight could also detect an individual's strong ties to the Mysticism rune (if they knew what they were looking for).

Is it possible that all advanced mystics could acquire the immunity from Spirits of Retribution  that Nysalorean Illuminates do? My initial thought was no, but then I was not quite so sure -- maybe it could be part of the temptation that mystics have to resist? Also I thought of the story of how Alkoth fell to Sheng Seleris without a conventional battle. Sheng Seleris is one of the most well-developed accounts of a mystic who 'sold out', and I could imagine this being one of his (lesser) abilities -- though he probably wouldn't have learned it from Nysalorean practices, would he?

Richard Hayes

From: Lord Hennamono <> To: Sent: Monday, 12 March 2012, 23:08
Subject: Re: Troll illumination

On 12/03/12 13:33, Richard Hayes wrote:
> Sorry, I was using Illumination solely in the sense of the understanding of Chaos that Nysalorean (and Arkati?) mystics can achieve

As I see it Nysalor illumination is the same as any mystical enlightenment. It isn't just about understanding chaos, but both chaos and (perhaps more importantly) cosmos. The emphasis on chaos is Gbaji not Nysalor. Whole can of worms the difference, I know...

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