Re: Odal and personal property among the Orlanthi.

From: Andrew Larsen <aelarsen_at_Llvog5UvQk-uYHHAMty4pdW1hI_TReVlv2CQf9z2EKAfBplwyQX3Cg1GD-kqBTk4Zb7>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:22:49 -0500

If I may jump in here:  

Ancient Greek and Latin have no word
that corresponds to the modern 'family'. 'Oikos' and ''familia' both mean
'household, residential unit' and can
include biologically-unrelated slaves,
servants, friends, and even livestock.
By the 12th century, though, medieval
society was beginning to redefine
'familia' to mean 'descent group', and by the 16th century (IIRC) it was beginning to resemble our concept of family (so
that the wife was seen as part of one's
descent group, for example, despite
not sharing one's ancestors).

     So I think what we're saying here
is that the Orlanthi 'Stead' is more a
'household' than a 'family' in modern
terms. The 'Kin' is the separate 'descent group', because it includes the dead
Ancestors as well as relatives who
do not live in one's stead. The Kin is
a little closer to the Roman 'gens' ('clan' but not in the Orlanthi sense).

Andrew E. Larsen

On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:08 AM, David Weihe <> wrote:

> Lord Hennamono <> wrote:
> > > I don't have the Sartar book at hand, but I am unsure
> > > whether the family is a legally recognised entity
> > > among Orlanthi.
> > I agree. Family (as in nuclear) is a modern concept - to
> > the Orlanthi family is kin
> Actually, "family" goes back to Aristotle's lecture notes, and meant everyone living together, including a family's slaves, animals, paid servants, Uncle Sven who isn't actually related to anyone but came back with your father after Father's short outlawry, etc. Thus, having a nuclear family, as opposed to extended family, is one step up from being kinless.
> I expect that the Orlanthi recognize family to the same extent that they recognize Bed Marriage (where a couple just shacks up together, much like Common Law Marriage in RW), friendships, and numerous other extra-legal relations, on an ad hoc basis. It would be handled on a case by case basis, not cited as legal precedence except for the precedence that it CAN be noted.
> > Clan is family. Bloodline is important but secondary,
> Clans are a not-necessarily-permanent collection of bloodlines. All fines are payable by bloodlines (and thus cannot be paid within a bloodline, which can lead to kinstrife).
> > at least in my Glorantha...

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