I have a few questions on the Esvularings: 1. Would it be fair to call the Esvularings henotheists? (With a particular interest in Heortling/Lightbringer gods as emanations of the Invisible God)
2. What are the Esvulari names for their visible gods -- the Heortling names, Malkionised versions of those names, or neither?
3. Within the Esvularing 'tradition', do some worshippers have access to feats from one favourite Orlanthi god as well as/instead of essence plane magic?
4. Is it possible for an individual Esvularing to learn feats and essence plane magic? Under the old RQ rules this (and a mediocre set of sorcerous spells) would have been my solution (and it would have been a solution for Arkati as well), though MGWV. However I understand this sort of mixed advanced magic also breaks a major Gloranthan taboo, if not something akin to the natural laws of Gloranthan myth and magic. YGWV is important, but there must come a point at which YGWV is stretched so far that what you are doing "c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la Gloranthe"
5. Alternatively do the Esvularings have a Carmanian-style practice (only without the dualism), whereby only 'wizards' are directly involved with the Invisible God and perform essence plane magic, whereas people in other castes worship theistically whilst (perhaps) being dimly aware of an invisible god behind the visible gods, truly known only byh their wizards?
6. Presumably Esvularing grimoires are not especially powerful, though they will reflect Lightbringer myths, and maybe some communication magic (which reflects their Kachasti roots). Can we assume that some Esvularing grimoires use Lightbringer myths to navigate and manipulate their parts of the Essence Plane?
7. Can one also taken it a step further and assume that many Esvularing grimoires are specific to an individual visible god, e.g. a grimoire of spells linked to Orlanth's myths, another for Issaries, another for Chalana Arroy
From: Daniel <von_das_at_Bd-mwkfwfNonsbUKAVtR2DBu1Sx3h68fLiFNqCgPSO9E5mQRPRzIhrFXLRHTa38UeSGJ5J_587lw.yahoo.invalid>
Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2012, 10:07
Subject: Re: Esvular, Aeolian Church, etc. in HQ2
Would Aeolians still have some normal saints of their own? Like St. Aeol himself, I suppose. Would lay members of Aeolism be able to initiate or even devote to Orlanthi gods and gain magic from them?
The fact that wizards are supposed to remind the gods what they're supposed to do certainly offers a pretty clear image of what their magic might be like, stylistically - using grimoires to compel the gods to manifest their powers in a certain way. The gods are supposed to serve the Invisible God, and the wizards are there to remind them how; if Aeolian wizards just happen to benefit from it, well, that just proves their wisdom and the rightness of their cause.
> > On 4/26/2012 12:28 PM, Daniel wrote:
> > > With how Glorantha is being reimagined (refined, distilled, what have you) in connection to HQ2, I'm curious to hear what the new stance on Esvular and Aeol is. Would it still be around? How does it mesh with the new West? Are the Orlanthi gods still considered saints (with what that means in the new edition of the West), or are they something else?
> > It's still around AFAIK.
> Yes, but a lot of sloppy terminology is gone (especially "saints" and "bishops").
> Here's the canonical summary from the Guide:
> "Although most of the inhabitants of Heortland are Orlanthi, the southern coast of Heortland and the Bandori valley are the homeland of the Esvularing peoples. The Esvularings were once atheists like the folk of God Forgot, but have embraced a unique variation of Malkionism called Aeolism which holds that the Orlanthi gods are emanations of the Invisible God. They worship the Invisible God as the Supreme Creator, but heartily participate in Orlanthi rites as well. Although their numbers were always few, the Esvularings were a privileged and preferred group under Belintar as they made up the majority of Deputies and Companions of the God-King's governors."
> The key point is that the Aeolians worship/manipulate the Orlanthi gods as emanations of the Invisible God, not as Ascended Masters or Saints, or whatever. Aeolians can be found throughout the Holy Country and they are the largest Malkioni sect in Nochet.
> > I think the Aeolians organize their society by dedication to divine
> > saints. That's something the Rokari won't do while the Safelstrans
> > would just worship the pagan gods directly (without any silliness about
> > divine saints).
> The Aeolians are pragmatic materialists who have experienced a cultural Renaissance thanks to Belintar (who is their Arkat figure). They *know* that the Orlanthi gods are the (often falible) agents/servants/whatever of the Invisible God, history and logic proves it. The gods are often foolish and fickle, requiring wizards to put them back on the path of their duties.
> > I don't think the Aeolians are afflicted by misapplied worship.
> Agreed. FWIW, the term "misapplied worship" is unlikely to ever appear in any official publication.
> From a sorcerous perspective, the chief limitations of the Aeolians is their cultural isolation, their lack of sorcerous resources (the Safelstrans have the intellectual legacy of Arkat and the God Learners to draw on, the Aeolians just what they can get out of God Forgot or glean from Belintar), and their intellectually lamentable tendency to simply rationalize Orlanthi religious practice and give it a veneer of logical analysis.
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