Re: Truth in S:KoH

From: Richard Hayes <richard_hayes29_at_nTqgAY1lkjCM4c6S_Ka5Mu6P7Sf4ATryPZ9v9M4qQ68BdK65cLsOWqUJopYN>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 14:17:59 +0100 (BST)


I hope you don't mind me replying to the list, because I want to see if anyone else can offer further insights that take everyone forward.

I think we agree on quite a lot here but neither of us really knows where to draw the line between these two Runes. I have tried but as you point out, it isn't easy. Partly because the runes of certain cults have been revised (and not in a bad way), and one therefore wonders how many other cults with similar tendencies should have their runes rewritten too -- should Atyar/Thanatar now have Law instead of Truth, for example?
 I think the two Runes are a bit different. Both can involve an enquiry to get at 'the truth', but the truths devotees seek are probably different. Maybe there is also something more "scientific" about Law, and something more inherently conservative about Truth?

I like the way that both scholars and warriors can have Truth runes too. For some it is about honour, and for others it is about the (social) laws and customs of men, and understanding these. For both it is about countering Illusion and falsehood. Sometimes this can have a role in the administration of justice. Hence the division you identify in S:KoH betweenTruth andLaw

I see the Law rune as being more about 'natural philosophy' than what nowadays we might call the "social sciences". Lhankor Mhy is the greatest sage of all because he can do both. I don't think you can have essence plane magic without the Law rune, but I'm not sure every scholar who has it has to be able to do wizardry. Many/most(?) Lhankor Mhy can't, as I understand it, but those who do use this rune to do it.

Literacy, to me, could be reached through Truth or Law or maybe even Communication or Stasis? (as the written word creates a degree of permanence).

I also think it is important to read  a cult's take on Truth through the other rune -- Humakt's Truth is about Death, Lhankor Mhy's Truth is about Law (i.e. the natural laws of the universe), Yelmalio and Elmal's Truth is about Light. Atyar's Truth is about Chaos and Theft. Indeed I might give Atyar the runes of Truth and Theft.

The mechanics behind magic and runes is fineidshly clever, but isn't a god or cult really about a combination of runes  rather than a collection of runes? Isn't this really what "limited acess" to a rune is about, even if game mechanics have to explain it in other terms? Humakt's limited Truth is because his Truth is tied to Death. The same in its way is true for other Truth rune cults. (I'm afraid I like the old Godlearner runes of Creation, Destruction, Equal Exchange (now Trade/Communication), Unequal Exchange (Theft) and Balance, and think they should have been retained now the mechanics of a cult's magic has to be linked to  1-3 runes only -- they were scrapped just as Glorantha was turning in a direction which could have made them come into their own)

If Buserian has a grimoire (not sure), it should be a dull affair for NPC use, connected with astrology, divination and the right times to conduct other rites. Indeed it might even be a tome which its users do not consciously see as a grimoire!
  Richard Hayes

From: Robert Scott Martin <> To: Richard Hayes <> Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2012, 0:41
Subject: Re: Truth in S:KoH

Thanks -- sorry that went to you instead of the list. Wasn't arguing with you at all, just wondering where the line between Truth (=literacy and to some extent the martial virtues) and Law (=sorcery) is now.

I always liked the way Truth used to entail both the martial and the knowledge cults.


On Sat, 19 May 2012, Richard Hayes wrote:

> To me, Truth still has a meaning in terms of "Honour" and "Justice", neither of which are really covered by Law

Richard Hayes

From: Glass <> To: Richard Hayes <> Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012, 14:32 Subject: Truth in S:KoH

> 5. Scholars and sages who seek to understand the natural laws of the universe, including the theistic followers of Lhankor Mhy and Buserian, and the (sort-of) theistic followers of Irripi Ontor.

Ordinarily I'd classify these knowledge cults as sharing the Truth rune and not so much Law, so this is really interesting.

SKOH indicates that Truth provides all the forensic magic and Law provides...access to wizardry. Is Buserian a wizard cult now too? I guess so, since he's considered "the Yellow God with a Grimoire."

Do all knowledge cults by definition now use sorcery? I guess Thanatar should be an obvious exception, but chaotic sorcery used to be possible too. Does the chaos rune in its endless perversion enable access to sorcery?

Of course there still are a few Truth cults that aren't explicitly information workers -- Humakt, Yanafal Tarnils, (Y)elmal(io) -- but their access to the rune is now limited or "incomplete."

So what, to quote somebody, is Truth nowadays? Is truth a changing Law? People have truths. Is mine the same as yours?

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