Re: Ompalam, Malia and other possibly chaotic dieties

From: Tim <tim_at_BzGpwjjLcdXIepckEZjw6hRfsrjjbWlazAnPDEAWqFC_WV510tOMVvio-4bd_4ksszI2wX2R>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 10:52:13 -0000

Malia was one of the unholy trio, responsible for unleashing the devil into Glorantha, so even without the Broo connection you can see how people might see her being aligned with Chaos - but I agree that not every worshipper of Malia should be considered chaotic

In HW2 terms might we say that worshippers of Thed or Porchango must have the Chaos Rune (or gain it through their worship) whereas worshippers of Malia (and probably Ompalam,Ikadz etc don't need it, but it is not prohibited to them)

>> I would have said that Ompalam is not himself chaotic, but that he
>> is often worshipped by Chaotic societies where his magic is used to
>> strengthen the hold the masters have over their unfortunate
>> charges. In such areas he can be seen as a "chaos god"
> I dunno what you mean by chaos societies? I don't see any traces of
> him in Dorastor or the Wastelands. He is worshipped in Fonrit,
> neighbouring regions and presumably some parts of the Veldt but
> chaos is thin on the ground there.

re-reading, I think "often" should be replaced by "may be" or "could be", We don't see much evidence of him in Genertela, but then that is true of all Pamaltelan deities...

>> Ikadz is probably in a similar situation,
> I really don't get this. I don't see how a specific action
> performed with one aim in mind (ie purification) somehow becomes
> completely chaotic when performed with a totally different aim in
> mind (ie for shit and giggles).

Canabalism is a chaotic act that can turn one into an ogre, but is a sacred act to the non-chaotic cannibal cult. Human Sacrifice is generally unacceptable to Orlanthi, except where carried out by the Ana Gor priestess. An Orlanthi who kills his brother, even if he deserves it, is causing Kinstrife and threatening Chaos, but a Humakti has ritually severed his ties and need have no qualms. On this basis I have no problem with an act that can be both chaotic and non chaotic depending on the state/status of the participants.

Alternatively maybe this is a Urox/Urain situation (I'm sure there are other examples, but I can't think of them just now). The (non chaotic) God who "cleanses the souls of misdoers" and the chaotic god of torture are (or were) two separate beings, but may be confused by outsiders unfamiliar with the nuances. (Another God Learner construct where they either amalgamated, or failed to separate to cults?)

Likewise Ompalam - the Prosopaedia says "He is recognized in Pamaltela as the god of absolute rule" and "The God-learners classed Ompalam as the 'God of degenerative administration, of evil centralization.'" which looks like a judgement call by the God Learners - Absolute Rule is degenerative and evil, unlike our enlightened, god-ordained feudal empire...

>> Chaos is a mindless amorphous protoplasm outside glorantha - that
>> it should enter glorantha dependent on the mental state suggests
>> that it inherently obeys modern legal concepts regarding the
>> division between the guilty mind and the guilty act.

Chaos is a "strict liablilty" cult in that you do not need to be knowingly worshipping chaos in order to do so. However there are ways of ritually protecting yourself and separating an otherwise chaotic act from this source

>> I find it hard, however to not associate Gbaji with Chaos - I
>> thought everyone agreed that Gbaji was an evil, chaotic god even if >> they couldn't agree who he was (Nysalor, Arkat, Someone else?)
> If he was chaotic, then the Uroxi would sense him, no?

If only he weren't able to hide behind his powers of deception. I think a Nysalor Riddler who started asking too many strange questions around the Block would find relying on the argument "I can't be chaotic, or your sense chaos would go off" might find this not considered a compelling defence...            

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