Re: The same good ol' question : what is Chaos ?

From: David Cake <dave_at_vPY0WqIuToGn7yC5rYvzXEJ70L6udLJtxGhPHvmcmGRQjfCH8THO9sXkMLxr8549H_43-f7>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:34:26 +0800

On 19/08/2012, at 5:27 PM, Peter Metcalfe wrote:

> On 8/19/2012 9:14 PM, hcarteau_at__bvvcjFk4qHEo-W5DQLHS1B1f4tQAJSqMobHkmCcVRCAeSZo73SZE0bAn5xXufd7LtCByU3yX7Bp.yahoo.invalid wrote:
>

>> Other good point : chaos is as bad as elves or vadeli (who use chaotic powers), and there are spells to fight it as there are spells to fight elves and vadeli.

>
> I'm not sure where the idea of Elves are as bad as chaos comes from.
> There are four elf forests adjacent to the lands of Loskalm and Seshnela
> yet the number of times the westerners have tried to wipe them out is
> pretty much close to zero. That wouldn't happen if the Westerners
> considered the Aldryami as bad as chaos. Likewise Cults of Terror does
> not state that the Westerners called the Elfs Krjalki - they only used
> that word to describe the Uz and Dragonewts.

        In general I agree. The Sedalpists might consider elves about as bad as chaos, perhaps, but I do not think it is a majority Malkioni opinion. And certainly the Rokari or Hrestoli do not, or they'd have been in near continuous war with them.

        I think Cults of Terror implies that Arkats army did call the elves krjalki (pg 18), because the non-human enemies of Arkats army would almost certainly include elves (the elves being the main non-human allies of Nysalor), but it also says that this is due to Brithini ignorance and unfamiliarity with non-humans - the native Seshnelans who are familiar with elves presumably would not have made this mistake.         

> AFAIK Westerners see Elves (and Dwarves) as different - not humans but
> not monstrous either.

	For the most part, yes. 
	They are, of course, deeply Wrong, but so are most other humans. The Mostali may even be somewhat less wrong than, say, animists. 

>> It's not worse, it's not the all-surpassing horror orlanthi are so focussed on. But these smelly, loudmouthing barbarians live very close to horror spots like foulblood forest or snakepipe hollow, so it's understandable they focus on it. There are no chaos nests in the West - the Gate of Bannir isn't one. Or is it?

>
> The swamp of Dilis. The Borists of Ralios. The Guild of Chaos Monks.
> I'm aware of a couple of other examples but they haven't been described
> in print.
        

	Yes, Dilis in particular is very much like a classic chaos nest, a reasonable sized geographical area known to plagued with chaos monsters. And we have historical examples, such as the Vampire Legions of Tanisor wiped out by Arkat in the first age. 
	I do think there is a tendency for Western chaos to take a different form - chaos is more associated with moral error and deliberate acts of corruption in the West, and tends to be a bit more covert (ie Boristi, Chaos Monks, the Nameless man), similar to the way chaos in Pamaltela is more associated with single powerful very chaotic beings than with mobs of chaotics in Genertela. But it is a tendency, not a rule. 
	Cheers
		David