Peter Metcalfe:
> Rape is chaotic. No exceptions.
Not so. Rape is brutal, probably evil, but it is not necessarily chaotic.
Point in case: the origin of the merfolk, and other results of the Vadrudi rampages. Including young Orlanth.
Other incidents: forced sex throus social superiority, backed by that superiority's potential for punishment, with social inferiors or slaves (and why take wives in patriarchal societies out of this category?).
> Cannibalism is chaotic unless practiced by the Praxians, the
> Uz, the Saliligori of Homago, the Cannibal Cult, the Earthshaker
> Priesthood of KeroFin, a couple of Vingkotlings, just about
> every other cannibalistic culture except the Ogres.
Nice list...
> The first is nice and clean. The second had more exceptions to the
> rule than people who are actually caught by it. Until you can put > forward a nice clean definition of chaotic cannibalism, I think
> we're done.
Ogre "cannibalism" (basically, that's a misnomer if ogres are a separate species) is a chaotic requirement imposed on the ogre by Cacodemon, much like bloodthirst is a chaotic requirement imposed on the classical vampire. It comes with a gift - superhuman strength - and a curse - wilting if not done regularly. There is also a requirement for the victim to be fresh, ghoulish corpse-devouring won't do, neither would ingesting mumia (powdered mummy).
Simon Hibbs:
> I can do that. Chaotic cannibalism is killing members of your own
> species in order to exclusively sustain oneself on their flesh. I think
> that's a one-way ticket to Ogreism.
There has to be some ritual involved to receive super-human strength from eating a fellow species member.
> I think there are degrees of cannibalism. Killing the victims
> yourself is worse than someone else doign it.
This argument only counts if the killing wasn't done for purposes of getting food.
> Sustaining yourself exclusively on your own species is worse than
> occasionaly consuming them. The risks of Chaos taint from engaging
> in less extreme forms of cannibalism likely drop off, but probably
> never vanish completely.
I haven't seen the grizzley details of Wintertop Acolyte cannibalism, but I suspect strongly that the human meat they ingest are the mortal remains of human sacrifices. Sacrificial meat traditionally has transformed from mundane protein into something sacred to be ingested, regardless of the source. It is a sustance shared with the deity.
Early Vingkotling cannibalism operates in the gray area before the dead were separated from the living, and where being eaten didn't necessarily mean ending up dead for good. Although, as the Storm Age progressed, it certainly did mean the end of one's existance. During the Greater Darkness, cannibalism probably was a wide-spread survival strategy. I'm curious how early Vingkotling cannibalism meshed in with head-hunting and other trophy-taking for stolen powers. Orlanth had four magic weapons, with at least Lightning taken from the body of the vanquished foe. The Thunderstone is another such trophy.
I know too little about the Homagan dietary norms. Their cannibal activity appears to be limited to fellow Islanders.
Troll cannibalism isn't worth debating, really - these folk eat everything. The only significant argument is about the kin-eating Karrg's Sons, which sort of indicates that they used to have deadly ritual combats among their kin-groups once a season, with the victim served as ritual meat to the kin-group's rune lords before the invention of trollkin. Hunting other trolls for food is frowned upon, but won't turn a dark troll or mistress race troll into a cave troll. Burial by ingestion is a way to circulate the deceased kin's being within the group.
Praxians have formalized species-separated cannibalism of half of their tribes, the herds. They use Waha's butcher rituals for this, or Foundchild's for hunted prey. Then there's the herdmen dilemma carrying over to Prax and wherever this "Praxian delicacy" is exported.
Most Hsunchen practice some form of cannibalism, eating their beast form brethren under certain circumstances - with the notable exception of the chaos-tainted Telmori.
The Kingdom of War practices cannibalism as a regular means of feeding their marauding troopers, according to G-IttHW. While I doubt that the legions of Lord Death on a Horse are free of chaos, I don't think that all of them fed this way turn into ogres.
Argin Terror appears to have made the mistake of eating his mother. While he may be somewhat chaotic, I wouldn't make him an ogre, just a badass human sorcerer reeking of unhealthy magics. Possibly using some stolen Black Arkat magic from Guhan.
The cannibals most likely to turn bad would be Fonritians, madly chaotic Lunars (who alternatively turn into the Mad Sultanate greyskins) and possibly the Ramalians (making no difference between Mraloti and pigs?) or Ralians taking Arkat and Beast Society ideas to the extremes.
Highly ranking Fonritian slaves apparenly have a taste for jungle meat, which in this world means primates, and which in Fonritian context may make no fussy distinction between monkeys, apes or lower standing slaves. "They were sold as Praxian herd folk, honest, guv..."
Fonrit has a plethora of unpleasant cults, some similar to unpleasant ones from elsewhere on Glorantha, others twisted caricatures of deities serving as good role models elsewhere. I would be astonished if there was no variation of Cacodemon among them, teaching rites to attain all the blessings and craves of ogres.
I'm not quite decided on Spolites or ignorants with their (inverted) step pyramids.
Whether the blue-skinned sorcerers of Pelanda were cannibals, ogres, or simply Vadeli doesn't really matter, nor does the question whether Vadeli (or Brithini, or Flesh Machine worshippers) were chaotic.
Powered by hypermail