Re: Shadows Dance and the GIant Land adjacent

From: jorganos <joe_at_qIngwJ5MuohsyZ_ighklLapWASy0UotA0b4TQbuh2bCUST6W4L9GfVV7-W9unOjFhXpoefiH>
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:40:25 -0000

Sean Foster:
> Occasionally ther are discussions about the size of insects mentioned in Trollpak, suggesting that they seem equivalent to 1/72 scale when compared to Gonn Orta (150m). Monstrous 8m dia Spiders, 80m long centipedes, Wasp riders etc etc

> I would guess these giant insects have "scaped" the giant lands adjacent, and I was wondering if there were any Gonn Orta sized cats, dogs, etc around. The only reference is the Borderlands scenario "To Giantland" that is only a minor trading outpost it seems.

These giant insects have escaped the underworld along with the trolls. No giants directly involved, as far as I know.

> My question is more about these giant lands. They seem to me a fay/faerie land, a Shangri la, where occasionally giant couples release their children in cradles at the head waters of the Zola Fel, following some ancient ritual.

I'm no way certain how much of this still is current thinking, but one of the most telling texts on the true giants is the Annilla cult write-up from Troll Gods, making the goddess of the Blue Moon an ancestress of the giants. IMO the giant babies are sent down Magasta's pool to follow the path of their ancestress.

Obviously, this requires Magasta's Pool to be there. Earlier rituals may have had cooperation with Genert's Garden, but since Genert's demise, the Cradles may have been a more risky alternative.

> Did they do it on the Oslira in god time.

Seolinthur (the river of Genert's Garden) and its tributary Zola Fel are about as ancient as Oslira. With Oslira just passing through and Seolinthur passing by, I think Zola Fel still is the most adequate guide to the source of the waters.

> Is the area some remnant of the green age or such.

Some of it is a remnant of the Golden Age - the Hidden Greens. According to the Monomyth, parts of the true giant presence might even predate the Green Age.

> How big is it?

Since Time, the true giants mostly have only been sighted in the eastern Rockwood Mountains. Some people equate the Praxian deities or some earth walkers with these giants.

> How many giant live there.

Ordinary giants: hard to say. Griffin Mountain suggests a rather strange metabolism for Boshbisil, with only seasonal eating.

True Giants: a couple dozen are known, most of these as mountain peaks. Three mobile elder giants were active since the Second Age: Paragua, Gonn Orta and Thog (roughly in the sequence of appearance).

> Some 15m (in RQ) giants are occasionally seen along giant walk, but there has to be giants between the 15 and 150m sizes in the Giant land.

Not sure about that. Boshbisil is as bright and tall a non-elder giant as they tend to get.

Elder giants start at around 20m in the cradle, and travel the underworld and the sky world while growing up to (young) adult size (about 100m).

> I would not think a "mountain" range could hold a giant civilization, which is why I would suggest it's a hidden land that has weird tardis-esque effects. Thoughts/references?

Elder giant civilisation appears to be one of mountaintop hermits except that they are the mountaintops themselves. They rise only rarely, much like their true dragon counterparts. On the magical planes, their activity likely is a lot greater than in their manifestations in the physical world.

If I recall correctly, giants are bearers of disorder, so don't expect too much of a civilisation. They seem to have ties to the Spirit World, if the identification of the Genert pantheon with giants is correct.

Alison :

> I've always wondered about where the other giants of Gonn Orta's size were hiding, myself.

> Giants so big that they're mistaken as mountains are one thing, but where are they until they get that large on the Gloranthan scale?

Gonn Orta is one of the youngest elder giants around - possibly the passenger of the last successful cradle. He reappeared from his cradle quest at 100m size and had some adventures since, such as the famous attack on the Nidan dwarves in the Second Age. Since then, he mostly sat around in his mountain pass, slowly growing while meditating, occasionally taking interest in the lesser beings passing through.

> Are they folded into the land like Discworld's Djelibeybi?

They are the land, and yes, they can fold it. Like Djelibeybi? Not sure, but each elder giant may be/contain its own short world or portion of an otherworld.

> Underground?

That's where they are rooted when being mountains.

IMO both true dragons and elder giants assume physical form as required, taking from the land etc. around them, and/or enlarging physical features to size as needed.            

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