Re: Re: Mythmaking

From: Charles Stewart <cas_at_linearity.org>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:25:02 +0000

Hi Simon,

Last Monday, at 12:16:22PM -0000, you wrote:

>> History in Glorantha can definitely include that which >> happened Before Time.  

> I've yet to see any actual argument as to why the concept
> of 'before time' is actualy necessery to explain the world
> of Glorantha as it is precieved by it's inhabitants.

I think you have argued your case well enough to show that indeed, it is not *necessary* to understand time as beginning with the Dawn, nor necessary to understand myths as residing in history.

However, it does seem that a consequence of your position is that the Dara Happan worldview is the right one, and that the Cults of Prax version is simply wrong: given the relative popularity among these views among gamers, this would be a tad unfortunate.

Let me suggest another way of looking at Gloranthan time:

• Both since the Dawn, in the predawn history, and in the great myths of the gods, events can happen before other events, that is, events can be sequential;
• This notion of beforeness is more fundamental than time;
• Perhaps time came into being with the compromise, as the CoP story says, or perhaps it is older, as in your way of looking, we don't need to be sure about this;
• What changes with the advent of time is that this sequentiality becomes a full chronology: all events find themselves part of the same sequence, so there can be no gaps or contradictions in the sequence of events within time;
• But some events still can happen outside chronological time: those in heroquests, say, or in semi-mythical places like Castle Blue; and these events can be anomalous from the POV chronological time, eg. an HQer begins his HQ (chronological time), and then encounters a different HQer who left for her HQ later the he returned from his. All fine, since it all happened outside chronological time.

> Myths are not about events, they are about processes.

I think I know what you are trying to say, but this is an ugly way of putting it.

> Their
> apparent nature as events is pretty obviously an illusion
> as they can be interacted with by multiple questors at
> different times and in different locations.

Or alternately: the point of chronological time is that it prevents the kind of promiscuous relationships that caused so much trouble in the events and activities of the God's War, so leading to the Compromise. And, no doubt, will lead to the same kind of troubles in the Hero Wars.

> They explain what
> the proceses of nature are, how they interrelate with each
> other, and how they correspond to human experiences and needs.

As indeed, stories within chronological time can do.

> As such they must exist continuously to support (or threaten)
> human life and the world at large. Myth is metaphor, and
> any metaphysical analysis of it that relies on literal
> interpretation is badly flawed and will lead to flawed
> results such as time travel.

I quite agree that the wrong way to understand HQing is that it involves some kind of travel back to events before the Dawn age. I think, though, the CoP version of events does not require this.

Charles

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