Re: Presents from a shaman

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:13:35 -0800

> The rules (p137) say "once a spirit is bound in a charm it can be
> used by any member of the tradition or practise, as appropriate" -
> does that "as appropriate" mean that this is the norm and exceptions
> can occur?

The appropriateness is whether the charm is of a Practice or Tradition spirit, and whether the reciever is a member of that Practice or Traditioin.

Frex:

It is "appropriate" for a practitioner of the Waha Practice to give a Waha charm to another member of the Waha Practice. It is not appropriate to give that same charm to a woman (who is a member of the Eiritha Practice, not Waha, even though both are in the Praxian tradition), or to someone outside the Praxian tradition (even if they were also an animist).

It is "appropriate" for a Jardan the Warrior practitioner to give a Jardan charm to a Jardan worshipper. It is *not* appropriate for him to give it to a Dastal worshipper, as there are age groups in the Grazer religion and Jardan is "older" than Dastal. It would be appropriate for the Jardan practitioner to make a Yu-Kargzant Fire Spirit charm and give it to *any* member of the Yu Kargzant practice, as YK spirits are availble to all age groups. It would still be inappropriate to give any YK charm to a woman (La-Ungariant practice, not Yu Kargzant), or someone outside the Grazer religion.

Animism is about personal relationships between the inner-world user and the spirit world. If you don't have a relationship with the Spirit at the head of the Practice/Tradition, then using spirits from that Practice/Tradition is more like coercion or slavery than a harmonious working relationship. The spirit might do what it is told, but it will be cranky about it. (Sure, no big deal in a charm, but...)

Also, the various means of worship (Sacrifice, Veneration, Ecstacism) are very different - Sacrificing late-season cherries to your charm isn't likely to make an impact on it (at best, that's misapplied worship).

> After all, common magic can be feats, talents, charms, whatever.
> That implies that charms that are common magic can be used by anyone
> (as long as they're not concentrated in some other system).

Well, yes, but it has little to do with charms made from Practice/Tradition spirits.

Common Magic comes from an otherworld being (Spirit, Essence, Daimon) that happens to live in the Middle World (A Spirit of a berry bush, an Essence of a rock, a Daimon of a stream). Everyone has the ability to make or use a charm from a Middle-world Spirit. The charms described in the Animism chapter are made from Spirits ripped/seduced/inveigled/kidnapped/invited from the Spirit World, and require a practitioner (or shaman) to make.

(Yeah, I know, common magic screws up more things than it fixes, that horse was flogged to death long ago.)

> So if a shaman wanted to give a present to an (unconcentrated)
> theist...?

The exception I would make is for Animistic practices inside a Theistic religion (ie, Kolat is part of the nominally Theistic pantheon).

(Yeah, I know you haven't seen the official Kolat writeup yet - Greg & I are working on it...).

> OK, *IF* that's possible, and my theist has their fetish, can they
> do that trick of releasing the spirit to use the entire ability
> rating as a bonus? Could they do it if the shaman helped them?

Fetish? or Charm? Two different mechanics. A Practice/Tradition Charm requires a relationship with a Majestic Spirit (practice) or Great Spirit (tradition). A Fetish requires a direct relationship with the spirit inhabiting the fetish. It is only possible at the 30% worship level or above.

I would let a theist hero to use the "release" function only if he: A] is unconcentrated and B] worships a pantheon that includes spirits (Kolat in the Storm pantheon, frex) and C] is a Practitioner (30%er) of the proper practice (and D] made friends with the spirit as detailed on HQ 137).

As I said a month or so ago during the whole "Religion" debate, *I* think the "Worship XX" ability (ie, the 10% communal-worshipper level) is a radio-button function - you worship the Praxian tradition, *or* you worship the Storm panthen, *or* you worship the Aeolian Church, you don't worship the Storm tribe *and* the Praxian tradition. If you worship the Storm tribe, then you are a theist with little access to spirits (only through Kolat and Serdrodosa). If you worship the Praxian tradition, then you can worship Humakt and Orlanth, but as misapplied worship through Sword Man and Little Brother. If you worship the Aeolian Church, then your entire religion is misapplied worship (sucks to be an Aeolian).

So, the answer to your questions is "probably not".

RR
C'est par mon ordre et pour le bien de l'Etat que le porteur du pr�sent a fait ce qu'il a fait.
- Richelieu

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