I renamed this thread, since Philippe had asked that the other be closed.
>From: "Rob" <robert_m_davis_at_...>
>
>Go on, reclaim the modest ground, and make 17 a great stat again!
What if I want to play a newb? Then just modify the world again?
But why? It seems to me that your idea to make everything 17 is based on the notion that you want the chargen in the beginning of the MRB to be able to emulate any character at any level of ablity? Well what if you have two players, one who wants to play a newb, and one who wants to play an experienced character? Do you still give them 17's to start?
It seems, too, that this idea is simply in response to Philippe's problem about characters with too many augments. But, thing is, I've played with characters that are more powerful, and I don't think it's a problem. The scale makes sense, and works fine in my experience.
That means that the characters created using the standard method from the MRB are "heroic newbs." People keep missing that there are two uses for the term hero here - one meaning somebody who does things despite the risks, and one being somebody who can do things worthy of legend. HQ can do either well, and doesn't require that all HQ characters be newbs.
There's even a section in the rules that shows you approximately how to do it by making characters with higher ability levels. So you can create characters at any level. And it works.
There seems to be some heartburn, too, about how to set resistance levels. Some example here doesn't seem right. Or the augments seem to end up too high. I think this comes from a desire to have the world enumerated in such a way that you can compare X to Y, and say this is better than that! Well, I don't think the system does a good job of this, or even intends to do this. But what I can say is that all you have to do to "fix" this problem is stop thinking of the examples as set in stone. If what the book says seems too low for Harrek, then make him higher. That is, if you look at the total that your character came up with, including augments, and you really think that even with all that, that Harrek should still be higher, then make the resistance on the roll higher.
It's a simple process. If you want Harrek to seem tougher, and the character has a 10W8 total, then make Harrek 10W9. With a HP, the player's hero will probably beat him anyhow. But at least the desire to have him seem tough will have been accomplished.
Now, somebody out there is crying foul, like I'm some railroady GM who is setting TNs solely for the purpose of controling the outcome. I'm not representing the world in a fair and objective manner. Well, the fact is that the style that I play in doesn't really require that...everybody assumes that I'm being fair before the fact, and what they want is for me to make the encounter with Harrek be both believable and interesting. So they trust that if I'm making him tougher, that it's not because I'm trying to beat the party, but because that'll be fun. Or at least that I'm trying.
Am I violating the scale by doing this so-called "relative scaling?" No, as I've said before, if the characters have X ability, and Y augments, then why can't we assume that the opposition can add that up and be as tough. I mean, we think of the NPC as having higher primary abilities, and imagine that these are backed up with all sorts of other abilities...why can't we set the TN appropriately, then? Because the chart of sample resistances says that his highest ability is 10W4? I personally don't believe in using ratings and augments for NPCs, but if you do, then by that logic, then I'm still right.
You can't have it both ways, that the sample resistances are unaugmentable ratings, and that we can't adjust these resistances to what they should appropriately be. Setting a resistance is picking a number that makes sense in some way for the contest in question. Whether that be by some internal game world rating system, or by drama. Either way, the result is the same. Harrek is still tougher.
Now, lastly, there's a separate issue of character advancement rates. I doubt Philippe's players characters started at "Starting character" level (he can correct me if I'm wrong). Because the math doesn't add up. Even with the HP he's saying he gave, the ability levels couldn't possibly be that high for that number of abilities.
But, if you choose to start with more powerful characters (and I think you should in most cases myself, actually), you need to be ready for them to be heroes in both senses. Yes, they will rapidly get to the point where they're doing lots of setting altering stuff. Even if you buy my idea that Harrek will still be more powerful, in some cases he may not be (clever characters may find ways to alter the odds), and in any case, as I point out, the players are going to win eventually in any case.
So do you roll to see if these characters make it past the newb guards with the 5W resistance? Nope. Just use the Automatic Success rule as this is something that "no self-respecting hero" at this level of ability would fail at. Just get them to the head of the order that they're trying to debate, and have them roll against him. His debate ability will match theirs. They want it to.
Oh, you thought it was a fight? ;-)
Mike
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