Re: Re: How do edges and handicaps work?

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:19 -0800

> What I understand, having read Roderick's clarification (see
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hw-rules/message/1028 ), is that:
>
> - If I win an exhange (it does _not_ matter who acted/bid) then my
> edge is added to the bid (or handicap is subtracted from the bid)
> before multiplying. My opponent's edge or handicap is not
> considered when I win an exchange.

As written this is the case.
As intended (and will be amended in the FAQ/Errata) edges work *on your bid*, not if your opponent was the one bidding.

Your edge/handicap only takes effect when your opponent loses AP *on your bid*
Your opponent's Edge/handicap is applied when you have to lose AP *on his bid*

> However, Wulf Corbett, who is my best tester, disagrees and believes
> that, at least in some cases, the opponent's edge should be included
> in the calculation.

Possibly he means that bit about edges are subtracted from each other before the bid - (page 136, last paragraph before the example). This is a "speed-up the contest" option.

Simple Example.
I'm in a horse race, and use my horse's "Fast" to give me a ^4 edge to my "Ride" ability. My opponent does the same but only gets a ^2. Rather than have both of us with an edge, the Narrator decides that they are subtracted from each other - I now have a ^2 and my opponent has none.

So, just to give you a complete possibility list of edges... Joe has a ^3. Joe attacks and bids 5. Joe's die roll is listed first, then Jim's. It doesn't matter what Jim's edge (or handicap) is, as he is not the actor.

Critical/Critical - narrator determines.
Critical/Success - Jim loses 8, Joe gains 8AP
Critical/Failure - Jim loses 16, Joe gains 16AP
Critical/Fumble - Jim loses 24, Joe gains 24AP
Success/Critical - Jim gains 5, Joe loses 5AP
Success/Success (Joe wins) Jim loses 8AP
Success/Success (Jim wins) Joe Loses 5AP

Success/Fail - Jim loses 16AP
Success/Fumble - Jim loses 24AP

Fail/Critical - Jim gains 10, Joe loses 10AP
Fail/Success - Joe loses 10AP
Fail/Fail - Jim loses 8, Joe loses 5AP
Fail/Fumble - Jim loses 8, Joe loses 10AP
Fumble/Critical - Jim gains 15, Joe loses 15AP
Fumble/Success - Joe loses 24AP

Fumble/Failure - Jim loses 8, Joe loses 10AP Fumble/Fumble - Jim loses 16, Joe loses 10AP

Weapons vrs armor are a slightly different matter (and can be applied to similar situations where my 'attack' and 'defense' are different abilities). Here we have the possibility of both people having edges against each other (two naked orlanthi with 2-handed swords). In this case the edges are usually *not* subtracted from each other, but take affect on their owner's bids.

There has been some discussion on the list about using a defender's weapon edge when he wins the exchange ("As he swings I stop-thrust to his chest. I rolled a Critical, he rolled a fumble - he runs onto my blade. Whaddya mean my weapon rank doesn't count?") but this is not an official rule. (It may be what Wulf was thinking of).

Roderick