Re: Dialects in communication

From: donald_at_-ybJAzbOleNodU6PA_r0W7n5nUZHFb6T5KA6OYWIfWzkOeCIuEASe6Z1nOOz_yhmT-lTz
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:41:13 GMT


In message <27c976de0901210557u5a0cc95h7e8668af298f6018_at_yekwKUvEo4sAGB4HFhXSkeX5lbnN0a1eHR7WJcP-NdU_6TGMOIoSIkxPcBYI0amxgyhekm3BSs5RJfYg6tla5UGTxMFg5KzFhx8bPitSyR9K2tvUwhPBmnYC3ByhQJwQV9M7WxY.yahoo.invalid> Grimmund writes:
>On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Simon Phipp <soltakss_at_lCn7f_sI_o9LOcFYmMCB0ulVF3kMFySw2RlY6_QUVD-QCFPjXBzL8QE1r4kZ2OlcBnJPo84WvvU7E6XmCA.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>
>> When I was at University
>> there were two female first-year students, one from Sheffield and one
>> from Bristol. ... two intelligent English-born women could not
>> understand each other's dialect.
>
>Yet one presumes they both managed to understand 'standard accent'
>British English, and make themselves understood by speakers of
>standard 'British English'. While the two different dialects may be
>mutually difficult to understand, both are intelligible to the
>'standard' version of the language.

The standard English accent is understood by pretty much everyone but that's because just about everyone hears it regularly. Those who speak it by default are no more able to cope with unfamiliar accents than anyone else.

>> In a less modern society, dialect is more of a challenge.
>
>It can be. What is also likely to cause problems is changes in
>vocabulary and usage. Changes to the meaning of words can trip
>people up, too, until they figure out that the speakers are using
>the same word to refer to refer to different things.
>
>(For example, in the Southeastern US, 'coke' is often a generic
>term for a carbonated beverage, which can lead to a disconnect
>when someone traveling outside that area asks for an "orange
>coke.")

Meaning changes and unfamiliar words are what dialect (as opposed to accent) is.

>>Travellers will probably be able to understand several dialects
>>but the more sedentary and conservative ones will find it difficult
>>to understand each other.
>
>Sure. Broadly speaking, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and
>Romanian are all dialects of Latin. Doesn't mean speaking one will
>let you speak all the others, but after learning one, people tend to
>find it easier to learn one of the others. :)

That's broadening dialect beyond its usual meaning. Dialect involves a small proportion (10%, maybe 20%) of words which are either not part of the main form of the language or rarely used by most speakers. There are no significant differences in grammar or sentence structure. So apart from a bit of "what does that word mean?" speakers of different dialects can communicate without either learning the other language.

In that sense I understand that Welsh, Cornish and Breton are more dialects than separate languages.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

           

Powered by hypermail