This does not mean he is worshipped only there. The porsopedia lists him as a chaos god, not a pamaltelan god. He is also mentioned in ToRM chaosium notes on chaos, (Chaos issue 7?).
>
> >The sources say his priests travel the world and they call
> >him by many names, portraying him in whatever form is most pleasing
> >to potential worshippers.
>
> So Gark must be seen by now in Dragon Pass? Poetic descriptions
> "travel the world" are not always true.
I didnt say he was worshipped in dragon pass, but could be found in small cults all over, especially in the west, who have a notoriously poor understanding of the dangers of chaos. In fact greg makes a point that western tradition does not distinguish chaos from any other form of cultural boogie man.
>
> >I should think westerners are particularly
> >good targets thanks to the feudal system and the opressiveness of
the
> >churches.
>
> The westerners have their own problems, the feudal system is no
> worse than the Orlanthi and Lunar Governments (rather it manifests
> different kinds of turmoil in different ways)
That is untrue, the Orlanthi and Lunar systems are far more egaliterian than theocratically ordained hereditary serfdom. Orlanthi elect their chiefs, and it is quite possible for anyone to become one if they are worthy enough. The Lunars consider orphans sacred...etc... There is no comparison to western feudalism.
and the churches are
> not oppressive. Malkionism is richer than just being the
enlightenment
> stereotypes of the middle ages.
Crusades against any one who disagrees with your brand of malkionism and tapping of the lower classes? Please? The power of the malkioni church is maintened through brutal coercion of anyone who would oppose it, especially heretical versions of malkionism. There is plenty of reference on all the wars and crusades that the different malkioni sects have fought with each other over slight variations in dogma.
> >
> > > More importantly is the assumption that he's chaotic so must
> > > have nefarious motives. Cults can be objectively bad even if
> > > they have motivations which are justifiably good. For example
> > > Pocharngo the Mutator conveys the gift of freedom from the
> > > constricting confines of shape but to everybody else he's a
cosmic
> > > cancer.
> >
> >This gift can also end up killing you. I think that Gark survives
as
> >a cult by fooling people into believing that he offers spiritual
> >peace [...] and instead he enslaves their body and soul.
>
> Again "fooling" and 'enslavement". You are declaring that he acts
> out of bad faith. What's wrong with the Garki actually knowing
> what their god says is true?
I am sure some Garki believe so, until they understand the truth of zombie enslavement. I think the gark afterlife would go something like this: For every slave you bring to Gark, he will reward you with a soul to serve you in the afterlife. I dont know why you insist that a chaos cult worshipper has to have pure motives.... I think you have been reading to much sedenic philosophy...
>
> >This is manifestly nefarious, just like Cacodemon, etc..
>
> That it is bad for glorantha as a whole does not mean that the
> Garki must act with bad intentions.
Why not? Why should a chaos cult have for a goal to destroy the world, slowly..... The broo that worships malia does so for a completely different reason than the orlanthi who prays to her for protection.....
>
>
> >I think people put too much stock in the "eternal peace" part,and
> >not enough in the Zombie part, which is the most important since it
> >has a concrete magical manifestation and a runic
> >association, "eternal peace" has neither, its a cover, PR for the
> >cult.
>
> What an odd thing to say. This is like saying that the Viking
beliefs
> of Vahalla is bunk and that it's just a cover for incessant
fighting.
Thats quite a stretch.....dont see how that follows.
> Garki act as they do because they are bringing eternal peace and
> eternal life.
Gark wants to make zombies, nothing more. This is its chaos power. His runes are probably Chaos and Undead and maybe Harmony?. Each local cult may have more elaborate beliefs or maybe less, depending on what function the cult if fullfilling for the worshippers and the priest, but at the core the power he manifests into Glorantha is zombie making. This is his Magic. What magic does "eternal peace" bring? There is no such magic, its called "create zombie", you could, if you can twist the truth like a riddler, call it "grant eternal peace"....
Maybe we can call the corruption spell "Liberate form" and the Void spell could be called "Rebirth". Semantics really.
>
> > > Except that Thanatar and Vivamort do not have anything to do
> > > with Gark when they make Zombies - I'm not even sure that
> > > their zombies are even chaotic.
>
> >The sources say: Chaos pantheon - chaos god of eternal
> >peace, eternal life, and zombies.
>
> Just one line is hardly a firm basis for sweeping statements.
It hasnt stopped anyone else before ;)
>
> >This would imply that Gark is THE chaos source of zombie making,
and
> >so all chaotic zombie making borrow from his power.
>
> Except that we know of chaotic cults make zombies without reference
> to Gark.
>
> --Peter Metcalfe
>
The reason why I am trying to give Gark his due is that people forget that every single chaos god is a personalization of a corruption of a part of Glorantha. These are the chaos gods that survived the Compromise, that means that their corruption was so profound and deep at the core of Glorantha that they survived time. Gark is still around, that means he is the representative of a strong chaos manifestation in the world. "Eternal Peace" is not it. The corruption is called make zombie. It is a corruption of the Hunger rune.
Powered by hypermail