>On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:46 PM, L C <lightcastle_at_drFCluWLeKLa4WgVZ5Z6C3SXKqBaHMvA15WCj0yh3XmwYtCfo-C_gVdNUrHYctE_1F-JfCnOmcwH13CTADbUfw.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>
>> So while there is some disagreement about some details, but the basic
>> consensus on the list here is that all magic that isn't common magic is
>> gained (at least initially) through a heroquest - the following and
>> re-enactment of a myth. So intrinsically, there is no difference in how
>> the three worlds magics are gained by the people who set them up, it is
>> only in how someone has to follow them that the split occurs. (You learn
>> formulae from a book, do the proper sacrifice, learn the negotiating
>> trick of the spirit.)
There's also a difference in how HQs appear to the different types. A theist takes the place of a god interacting with other people taking the place of gods. An animist interacts with spirits some of which may once have been human but most of which never were. A monotheist interacts with objects which are a source of power. A church wizard may personify those objects but a sorcerer won't usually bother.
A related issue is that the rule book is written as if there's a definite barrier between the material world and the Hero Planes. While appropriate for a rule book which deals with PCs and how they get there when they want to that doesn't reflect my Glorantha. IMG the heroplanes overlap the material world, people can find themselves moving between one and the other and acting in both at the same time. Usually that's the result of someone's actions but it can just happen.
>Actually, no one here has discussed spirit magic.
>
>As I read it, the trend is that spells need to have an active connection
>"proven" to the node(s) that power and direct them, which is (at least
>initially) done through a heroquest. Probably done by the initial Saint.
And subsequently reinforced by wizards following that saint's path.
>(Although, I would speculate that the magic in the Abiding Book already
>worked when it was first read, as part of the miracle of its creation.)
If that's the case then the Saint Plane intruded on the Material World. Personally I think it more likely that someone performed a HQ to get the book and those who saw it being written were on the Hero Plane or even the Saint Plane.
>And there is a broader range of opinions, but I get the sense that the
>summary for theist magic could be formed as: feats are discovered by
>heroquests. These feats are then either directly passed down to the
>community or individually gained by repeating the heroquest.
>
>This suggests that ALL hero cults are formed from the teachings of an
>explorer heroquester, not someone that first performed the great deed
>of magic (or discovered a new skill, or made a new type of object,
>etc.) in the Material world.
Agreed.
>For animist magic, the most likely heroquest is for the initial
>discovery of the spirit and the forming of the connection that
>allows people in the Material world to make the negotiations and
>bindings that create charms and such. If so, imagine how much
>harder it is to just wander in the Spirit-flavored heroplane,
>looking to meet new entities and hoping they don't devour you.
>At least, to me, that explains why the God Learners were (mostly)
>messing around with the divine plane and their myths, rather than
>trying to decode the animist traditions.
Going on to the spirit plane to negotiate with or bind a spirit is a HQ. Practicioners always and shamans usually know where to look to find the spirit they want. Wandering the spirit plane looking for a new spirit is experimental HQing. You need the shamanic skills of Shamanic Escape and Spirit World Travel to do it with any chance of survival.
I expect the GLers just found shamans too incomprehensible to make sense of. Theists usually follow a routine to get a specific result. Animists go somewhere they know a certain type of spirit is likely to be found and the spirit they befriend or bind may be significantly different from the one they got last time.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
Powered by hypermail