Re: Changed magic in 2nd and 3rd Age

From: Jeff Richard <richaje_at_m1CRanfaS21Up14DmEDzNoHzTpojxNz4hH-n2a4rzzP7OaZ2bjQIP1_ZR865SY6Uue2t>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:00:09 -0000

> So - in a nutshell, I disagree with LC when he says that there is a
> consensus that new magic comes from heroquesting and that magic learned
> without heroquesting simply replicates existing patterns (to paraphrase).

Depends on how broadly you use the term "heroquesting". Let's look at this for the Orlanthi (since they are the best described magical culture in Glorantha). As explained in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes:

"There are three basic types of heroquests. The most common is a Holy Day Worship Ceremony where the participants observe and support the gods to learn the power first displayed in that myth. A This World Heroquest is where the power of the Otherworld is drawn into the Mortal World and sacred myths are re-enacted to gain magical benefits and powers for the community or the quester. Rarer and more dangerous is the Other World Heroquest where key magical leaders are sent to the Otherworld to gain even greater benefits and powers."

As an Orlanthi, I learn how to use my rune affinities through worship ceremonies where I "observe and support the gods to the learn the power first displayed in that myth." Technically speaking, this is a sort of heroquest. On the other hand, I do this something like 42 days out of the year and is not normally something I really need to play out.

> a) interactions with otherworld beings do not necessarily require HeroQuests
> so that new magic can be discovered outside the hero plane (I mean that
> there is no reason why a magician could not ask a spirit to do something in
> a new/inventive way, invent some unprecedented way of using some Rune or
> other, nor any reason why the spirits and gods could never give new
> inspiration to a magician _outside_ of heroquesting)

Chris Lemens can talk at length regarding spirit magic. But the basic model is still there; the shaman uses the traditions of his people to interact with the spirits. Sometimes something new happens, and usually that is a source of fear and bewilderment.

> b) creativity exists in Glorantha, magicians can have it, and the HQ rules
> at least do clearly illustrate that magic can be creatively used by
> non-heroquesting types (sorry, confusing typo corrected)

I am a little perplexed by this. Of course magic can be creatively used by magicians. When I call upon the Air Rune to fly, I am being Orlanth. But I am also being creative in my use of this. I don't need to invent some tiny myth where Orlanth flew over the enemy soldiers in order to attack them from the rear; all I need to know is Orlanth is the King of the Air and can fly.

But perhaps you are using "creative" in a different manner?

Jeff