chrphrgrv wrote:
> Has the explanation for Yelmalian folk along the Zola Fel as
> published in Sun County and in Pavis and the Big Rubble no longer in
> standing?
No.
> Personally, I do have a problem with referencing to a Sun Dome temple
> in Dragon Pass in 877 ST.
It actually is a Sun Dome temple, a square temple built with a golden
dome on top.
> They do at a minimum have to be Yelm worshiping
> mercenaries.
I don't think so. Sun Dome Temples are not specifically associated with
Yelm. If you said they had to be Dara Happan mercenaries then I don't
think that's necessary. The Sun Dome Temples first re-appear after the
Gbaji Wars in Holay in 562 ST and there's plenty of time for it to
percolate into Dragon Pass circa 877 ST without Dara Happans being involved.
> They have to be Yelm worshiping because eventually they
> become Yelmalians
They were Yelmalions from the very beginning.
--Peter Metcalfe
>> Jeff continues-
>
>> I doubt there was a Second Age temple to Yelm in the Far Point -
>> >this was in the heart of Orlanthland. Maybe a shrine to
>> Tharkantus, >a war god of the EWF. Maybe to some other Fire/Sky god
>> of purely >local significance. Maybe to some star or planet. But
>> not Yelm.
>
> Here I have to disagree. My limited understanding runs as follows:
>
> First, Alda Chur seems to have grown by being on or close to a number
> of trade routes during peaceful times in all three ages. I have no
> proof of this first statement other than that a ruined walled city of
> substantial size exists beneath it. If earth's history and
> archaeological study of settlements is any guide to such matters it
> seems likely that the site has been inhabited over and over again
> probably continuously up until the Dragon Kill.
>
> Second, the Darra Happans were at least temporarily co-opted by the
> EWF by 770 ST -Darra Happa Stirs p.10 The EWF decline does not begin
> until after 875 -Glorantha Book page 23. The EWF made use of Darra
> Happan troops and mercenaries for a time in their war against the God
> Learners and also against various barbarian groups. And it seems
> likely that there were reasonably good relations even before 770 as a
> precursor to this union. One can conclude that there was trade and
> other exchanges of culture between Peloria and Dragon Pass over what
> would conservatively be at least 200 years of the second age. Also,
> while the EWF starts out culturally Orlanthi, it seems that by the
> time the EWF holds sway in Dragon Pass they have left the rivalry
> between solar and wind behind in furtherance of other goals. If I am
> wrong about this please enlighten me.
>
> Third, during the first age the World Council of Friends interacts
> (OK, often wars) with the Pelorian river valley peoples. And later,
> as the Second Council from there new seat in Doraster, helps them to
> throw off nomadic control and so the Darra Happan empire rises again.
> It is reasonable to conclude that Pelorian worship of Yelm touched
> dragon pass on a number of occasions over this period not the least
> being when the High Council conquers Dragon Pass in 380 ST.
> -p.17-18 Glorantha Book. Agian, it's important to note that there is
> not a constant state of war and if there are any cities of any size
> anywhere one has to assume a high level of trade and with trade there
> is generally some level of multiculturalism. (More on
> multiculturalism etc in a reply to a separate post of this thread)
>
> Finally, it seems to me that the dissemination of the feud between
> Sun worshipers and Storm worshipers goes back to before the Dawn and
> is fairly widespread already when the sun rises. As Yelm IS the god
> that travels across the sky daily and Orlanth IS the storm god upon
> which this cultural and theological feud is based, at least in
> central Genertela, it seems safe to assume that we start with an
> intermingling of beliefs throughout the region even if there is a
> prevalence of one or the other in certain regions. Some of this feud
> is cultural and cannot be maintained in absence of its other subject.
>
>
> For these reasons it seems at least possible that one or more temples
> worshiping Yelm in some guise does indeed exist in Dragon Pass and
> why not in Far Point. In fact what better location?
>
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "jeffrichard68"
> <richaje_at_...> wrote:
>> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "chrphrgrv" <chrphrgrv@>
>> wrote:
>>> Surely, the Far Walkers had no Yelamlian cultists when they
>>> arrived in the area. The only people worshiping Yelmalio in 1357
>>> ST when the Far Walkers crossed the Dwarf Run and entered The Far
>>> Place were the conservative land holders in Sun County far away
>>> along the Zola Fel.
>> In Prax they worshiped a fading sky god who was later revealed by a
>> Sartarite companion of Dorasor to be Yelmalio.
>>
>>> Nevertheless, some of the Far Walkers worshiped Yelm in some
>>> other way already. When they found the long abandoned temple to
>>> Yelm they consecrated it, not as a Yelmalian sun dome temple but
>>> as an alter for the worship of Yelm.
>> I doubt there was a Second Age temple to Yelm in the Far Point -
>> this was in the heart of Orlanthland. Maybe a shrine to Tharkantus,
>> a war god of the EWF. Maybe to some other Fire/Sky god of purely
>> local significance. Maybe to some star or planet. But not Yelm.
>>
>>> What form did this take?
>> The settlers worshipped Elmal. He is the Orlanthi Sun God after
>> all. Maybe they had a cult of Elmal of Alda Chur, or Elmal the
>> Exile, or Elmal the Defiant, or whatever. But it wouldn't have been
>> until after 1496 (and likely significantly after that date), that
>> the Aldachuri came into significant contact with lowland Pelorian
>> sun cults as described in King of Sartar.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
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