On 13/02/2013, at 7:39 PM, Nils Weinander <nils_at_...> wrote:
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, David Cake wrote:
>
>> There are Golden Age (or in Eastern terminology, Cycle of >Creation) stories about Vith's encounters with the first sorcerer, >priest and shaman, who are all his children. As far as the >> Easterners are concerned, the three other methods of magic have been >> known virtually as long as the universe has existed - but known to >> be ultimately inferior to mysticism for more or less as long. We >> have no reason to doubt them.
Yeah, but only roughly. It only makes the point stronger in any case - in Eastern myth, they claim that they knew of sorcerers, priests and shamans more or less before there were even people. (contrast with the Western myths, in which Danmalastan has only sorcery users within its borders, and their first contact with spirits is a Big Deal and very confronting and disruptive.) Of course, a Westerner would probably doubt the Eastern account, and say that the early Easterners must have learnt sorcery from early Viymorni or Waertagi or something. In any case, you are welcome to nitpick me on Eastern stuff any time, Nils. I sit at the feet of the Sage.
> The wayward sons get angry when their magic is inferior to Vith's
> mysticism and create a monster from their anger and fear, which
> becomes the dragon Dogsalu and starts the first war, ending this
> cycle. They are later forgiven and submits to Vith's world order,
> thus proving that magic of the three types is acceptable as long
> as it is performed in the correct way. This separates the gods
> from the antigods who don't obey the world order and use magic
> incorrectly.
Technically the three other magicians are still antigods I think, as while they accept the supremacy of Vith they never actually learn the mystic path themselves? But they are obedient antigods not rebellious ones, and later gods and sages show how these other forms of magic can be combined with mystic insight? Eg Ven Forn began as a shaman, Serd Marnad shows how mysticism and divine sacrifice can be combined following the inspiration of Mairnali, etc. At least that is my understanding.
>> While it is often claimed that this is the case, there is ample >> evidence that many practitioners of mysticism are interested in the >> magic it has as a byproduct, including some of those that are >> revered by mystics - eg the heroes of the Austerity War. It may well >> be that they shouldn't be so interested, but that is a subtly >> different question.
And another subtltey is that while using your mystic powers directly is considered detrimental to progress, it isn't always considered detrimental to the end result, only to the speed or certainty which which it is reached. In other words, some of the less Pure mystics are still considered perfectly valid mystics, just taking a longer or riskier or more restricted path.
Of course, given the Pure mystics think the 'advantages' of the less Pure forms (like martial arts ass kicking etc) are still foolish distractions from the big goal, they still think the less Pure guys are wasting their time or taking foolish spiritual risks.
> In the Austerity War, Darja Danad was a pure mystic. Conditions
> were so awful that his mystic defense kicked in all the time,
> looking an awful lot like magic.
It if quacks like a keet... While of course the distinction between passive mystic defences and active mystic powers is a very big deal to the practitioner, to the external observer it is just different varieties of mystic magic. Much like, say, Solace vs Joy is an issue of great concern to practitioners, and great unconcern to everyone else, who just see the same sorcery being performed by mildly different people. That said, I'm not sure Darja Danad is that Pure, though he is strict. He seems to spend a lot of his time raising armies and teaching them the correct mystic way to smack villains with sticks, and engaging more powerful villains in armed combat, which doesn't sound like his application of the mystic disciplines were entirely passive. Though he certainly isn't mixing mysticism with other forms of magic or anything like that.
> Those who came after him were
> less pure, and the general situation improved somewhat, so they
> used magic to emulate what the master had done as side effects
> of said mystic defense.
Yes. it was those latter heroes, who deliberately undergo Austerities with the express goal of having the necessary power to attack Sortum, to whom I was referring to.
Cheers
David
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