Re: nature of mysticism

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:04:34 +1300


On 2/24/2013 12:27 PM, Nils Weinander wrote:
> "Pure" mystics don't use magic, but most mystic schools of
> the present day have incorporated worship, and magic, in
> their practice.

I disagree but more importantly I think that this discussion of this supposed degeneration is unproductive because it wastes time describing how the cult has changed from one abstractly described state to another such state. I think it better to describe how the cult thinks and functions now.

> Worship of the High Gods was codified by the High Gods
> Chaquandarath.

Codified isn't quite the right word as it implies a dogmatic approach to religion whereas I think the Chaquandarth priests are rather laid back and easy going.

I think it better to view them as the follows.

A Vithelan scholar worships Korudel. His personal magic functions in a manner similar to that of other scholarly deities (Lhankor Mhy, Irrippi Ontor, Buserian etc). *But* when he wants to worship Korudel, there are no priests of Korudel. Instead he and other worshippers of Korudel go to a mass that is presided by a priest of Chaquandarath because they alone know the mysteries of reaching the High Gods through worship and sacrifices. I don't know whether the Chaquandarath priests can do it for any god they are asked or whether they require specialized training - both approaches have their attractions.

> During worship, the worshipper experiences
> the mystic state/the ultimate/liberation/... This is
> very difficult for mere mortals.

There is another approach to attaining this state - through the worship of Oorduren. Because the direct worship of Oorduren by the priests of Chaquandarath is impossible because of what Oorsu Sara did, most people have to follow the path of his human sages - Mashunasan, Niang Mao, Larn Hasamador and Nenduren/.

> High worship is mysticism, but there are also mystics
> who use other ways. Mashunasan's method for example does
> no include high god worship.

Mashunasan does not include any *theistic* worship. He still follows the path of Oorduren in reaching Durapdur. Given that his monks describe the mental states required to reach the ultimate in terms similar to the Five Malkioni Actions, it may be that his monks use spells in order to help them attain the necessary mental state. The spells do not summon the required mental state but in carefully blocking out certain distractions make it easier to attain. The use of such magics for material purposes will be seen as an abuse and severely punished by monastic authorities if caught. And of course, the more you are familiar with the required mental state, the less you need such spells.

> Worship of the noble wrongs, I guess most modern day
> martial artists are in this category, but Sivoli for
> example did not worship any deities IMO.

The Noble Wrongs include sorcerors and animists, not just theistic worshippers. Sivoli's Air Organ will be similar to Kolat's Breath, except that the Easterners will have an interpretation of spirits that I'm not quite clear about yet.

--Peter Metcalfe            

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