I'm sorry I don't place much stock in Greg sez hearsay.
> They did not continue the path to union with/dissolution in the Ultimate, or in other terms the path to full dragonhood.
They were killed before doing so.
> With the EWF, the massive straying from the true path lies behind their downfall, so [deciding whether they were failures] matters there.
How so? The precise nature of their downfall was that they were betrayed by Dragonewts and murdered by the Blue Moon. How do you connect that to their alleged failures as draconists?
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>> And given the Kralori Empire uses a similar system in channeling
>> energies of worship to the Emperor, would Godunya then be a failure?
> Godunya is one who judged the EWF as failure.
Not so. What it says was there was a schism between two draconic powers (those who accepted Godunya's teachings and those who rejected them) and that a true dragon came along and devoured the rejectors. That's quite different from the fall of the EWF. The acceptors of Godunya's teachings cannot be the Dragonewts because he's a human and they don't believe Kralori claims of being aided by Dragons.
So if the EWF are flawed because Godunya condemned half of them then isn't the Kralori Empire flawed because the Dragonewts don't believe their claims? That's why I don't place much stock in allegations that other people are failed mystics especially if their source has an ax to grind.
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>> I don't see anything in Ingolf's Saga saying that he used his
>> draconic powers for self-advancement.
> That's not part of the saga, which only deals with Ingolf's downfall. The text about Ingolf's (and Orlaront's) mystical school describes the various steps on the mystical journey, and I read this as using the draconic powers in this context was right and served self-advancement on that mystical path. Using these powers in other ways may have damaged them.
But the text specifically says there "Ingolf squandered his powers trying to help others" [History of the Heortling Peoples p51]. And "Around 940 ST, Ingolf began teaching [...] it was not only acceptable but desirable for draconic persons to manifest their power in defense of the common world" [Ibid p52]. Helping others, not self-advancement.
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> Provided they manage to escape.
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> I don't have any statistics about these camps (how many, where situated, what attendance, who runs them), maybe the new chapters in the guide will provide some. As penal institutions, they have competition in exile to Ignorance and outright execution.
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> Monasteries can be self sufficient or even produce surplus if the monastic community pursues worldly activities, and be it by lay adherents or owned villages. I would still be surprised if even a productive society like the Kralori can afford more than 1 in 1000 people following a true mystic calling, whether in austerity camps, on mountaintop meditation spots or in special classes in the schools for the imperial bureaucracy.
But Kralorela has a population of 11 million. That's a camp population of 11,000. If only 0.5% of the camp population screwed up badly every year, that's 55 fractional Shengs running amok in Kralorela every year. The place is a such security risk, serious consideration should be given to nuking it from orbit.
--Peter Metcalfe
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