Sam Phillips:
- ------------
>Who says an Eurmal has to break any rules? Not I, gungadin!
>(sp) If to mix the world up you have to break rules - great. If
>not - then don't.
Greg says Eurmal has to break the rules. Sandy implies this too, but he can speak for himself here. Or not, as he chooses. ;-)
Here's an excerpt from the RQ Con 2 Lore Auction: (AM = Audience Member, SP = Sandy Petersen, GS = Greg Stafford)
AM: You've said, "There is no change without Trickster," and that the essence of Trickster is to break all rules. Does that imply that Trickster is not as bound by the Compromise as the other gods are?
SP: He's breaking rules now, just like he was before. He's not changed since the Compromise. He still breaks the rules.
AM: Is he trapped into breaking rules within the Compromise? He can't break the Compromise?
GS: His part of the Compromise is to break the rules.
SP: And if you're asking if he can break the Compromise, my guess is he probably can but I don't think he has.
GS: What he'd have to do is act consistently, be selfless, care for others at all times, and do all the things that are in fact impossible to his nature.
AM: So he can't defeat his own nature?
GS: No, not by using his nature.
SP: That's why people in Glorantha are better off than the gods.
GS: Right. Because people can change their nature
Sam, you seem to approach Eurmali as being aware of the role of their god and conscious of their own role in society. That's a _very_ modern way of thinking. I don't believe Eurmali are aware of themselves at that level, any more than your average ancient Roman "morion" or Indian Pariah was. I think most Gloranthans come to worship Eurmal either through very poor judgement, because they are forced into it, or because it "fits" their self-centered personality and lifestyle (ie, they are lying stealing sociopaths, they are selfish ill mannered louts, they are murderous thieves, they are lazy and see they can get a "free ride" if they just make people laugh, etc...).
Loren Miller:
- -----------
>My assumption is that the Eurmali are purposefully contrary.
>They do everything backwards. A male eurmali would wear
>female clothing or wear clothes backwards, have sex with
>males, ride a horse facing backwards, walk backwards, shit in
>public and eat in the outhouse or woods, laugh at sad things
>and cry at happy things.
From the way you use the word "contrary" and your description, you seem to be basing the Orlanthi Eurmali on the Lakota Heyoka or Contrary. I think this is a gross misunderstanding and oversimplification.
A Heyoka is a type of healer or medicine man in the traditional Lakota religious context. A person becomes Heyoka by having a vision or dream of Wakinyan (Thunder Beings). Heyoka are considered among the most wakan, most sacred, most powerful, of all people. They are feared and respected. Iktomi (Spider, the Lakota trickster) is said to be heyoka because he speaks to the Thunder Beings, but Wakinyan dreamers do not "follow" or pray to Iktomi.
There is no tradition of Eurmal being a healer, of being considered sacred, or of being given respect. There is no evidence of contrary-like behavior in the Eurmal stories we have so far. To simply use the "backwards" or "antinatural" manner of the Contrary and to place it in the Orlanthi culture, without a context for it, is a mistake IMO. Without creating a Gloranthan context for this sort of behavior, and simply claiming Maximum Game Fun, is (at least potentially) an insult to the Lakota people.
Other Eurmal thoughts:
- --------------------
Thoughts?
Peace,
Peter
End of Glorantha Digest V1 #241
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
Powered by hypermail