> Mind you, I think that IO at least came to be regarded as a renegade
>- - though I certainly think he is a lot less despised than Treack. Using the
>Catholic Church as an analogy for Lhankor Mhy, IO is the founder of the
>Orthodox church or at worst the Protestants, but TM is an active self
>admitted devil worshipper and incarnation of the Antichrist.
Um, there's no actual founder of the Orthodox Church.
I had scribed:
> I think the Lunar 'reopening of the Way of Illumination' refers
>merely to active schools of Illumination being established once more. I
>think it highly likely that the 7M where illuminated before they started
>their quest (at least some of them, especially IO and YT).
There were Nysalorian Cults before this time. Some of them, I'm sure, actually knew what Illumination was about ('you got asked these funny questions, see, and when you comprehend the point, you go "gibber gibber gibber..."') and in rare cases people could actually become illuminated. There was one prominent one called the Order of Illumination which had eight schools that was active before the Carmanian Conquest. It was state-supported too. You may cite this as evidence for the some of the Seven Mothers being illuminated, but I am taking issue with the proposition that they _had_ to be illuminated to participate in the Birth of the Red Goddess. It Does Not Follow, say I.
Andrew Behan:
I had written:
>> The Tawari are the kin of Kereusi.
>> The Kereusi are a nation of 'Foot-walkers' from Naveria (cf Pam's
>> writeup of KanOra in which she said that Bisos was the son of Kereus,
>> who was the son of Naveria. So it seems we have two Bull Gods, the
>> Bisosi and the Tawari.
Andrew comments:
>Pam says Bisos is the son of Kereus and Greg in the Unity List Text
>(Bisos is #3) says he is the son of the Bull god KefTavar.
Oops. A bit of a clarification is needed. When Dara Happans (not the Pelandans) give the geneaologies of barbarians, they are really talking about something else, IMO. Have a look at Plentonius's (Glorious ReAscent) statement that Jenarong was the Son of Hirenmador, who was the Son of Targos, who was the Son of Kuranits, who was the Son of "Starlight Wanderer". Then take a look at the map. What is being described here is a movement of _tribes_. The Hirenmador split of from the Targos to occupy the lands further south etc. It was in this spirit that I interpreted 'Bisos is the Son of Kereus'. Thus the people who worshipped Bisos, were actually Kereusi to begin with. Since 'Kereus is the son of Naveria', this means that the Kereusi came from Naveria.
I must confess I forgot about the Unity List reference. It seems that some of the Kereusi came into contact with the Tawar and adopted the worship of a Bull Demigod namely Bisos, son of Keftavar (Here I think the parentage is exact). They then became known as the Bisosi.
>IMHO the
>Tawari and Kereusi were both formerly Hsunchen who worshipped,
>respectively, Tavar and Kereus. When the Kereusi settled down they
>worshipped Bisos, the cultural hero who defeated bad old YarGan (whatever
>the Dara Happans say.)
I'm rather leery of describing all cultures who worship animals as Hsunchen simply because they worship animals. Uroxi for example are not Hsunchen. I really see the Tawari as a nation of bull-worshipping people who are forced to leave their land (of Tawars which you point out) due to oppressive poll-taxes (har-har) imposed by the Brithini. They may have been hsunchen originally but this is not necessary. Some oppressed tribes of the Kereusin (simple foot-walkers) fleeing the rapacious appetite of YarGan, come into contact with Bisos. He leads them to victory for which the attendant Kereusi vow to serve him. He then becomes their ruling god and the Kereusi that follow him now call themselves the Bisosi. I don't think the Bisosi are (or have become) Hsunchen at this point (even though most of the Tawari may have been so). It seems to me to be against the flow of Hsunchen loosing touch with their animal selves elsewhere in Glorantha from a high in the Green Age.
>The anti-social, freakish nature of the Bull Shahs and the (seemingly
>chaotic) nature of YarGan do suggest an Urox connection.
Erm, YarGan is 'seemingly chaotic'? The Trolls of the Shadowlands will venture to disagree. (Y)argan's one of their favourite gods.
>Apart from the Lendarshi connection (arrgh!) one might ask
>is there a link with the Loskalmi region of Tawars? Another puzzle is
>what kind of animal is a "Bull"? Bisons aren't found in Fronela (where
>the Tawari) originated but are found in north west Peloria.
I forgot about (nay, didn't even remember!) Tawars. That is probably where the Tawari came from. As for the Bull, simple cattle should do fine. They could be water buffalo used in the paddy fields of China and Vietnam. Now that's the Tawari, Bisosi and Kereusi settled. The Lendarshi, I place in the far too hard box.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #37
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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