On the subject of Fazzur:
>His catastrophic failures at Whitewall and in Esrolia are well known. However,
>his most heinous act was to turn against his rightful king, Pharandros of
>Tarsh, and hasten the fall of the Empire. It is this act, of them all, which
>shows how despicably ambitious a man he really was.
hmm. I think Fazzur had died before Pharandros ascended to the Ivory Throne of Tarsh. Ozzur was the Leader of the revolt against Pharandros. You can blame Fazzur for bringing up his kids wrong...
Mark Smylie:
>...illumination would also
>seem to have been a contiuous part of Kralorelan culture during that time
>(perhaps someone can confirm that suspicion?)
I think so. The Kralori have a different sort of Illumination, IMO, than the Lunars and contact between Dara Happa and Kralorela has never been very strong. The best known Kralori illuminates are the Zolathi who are said to shun magic and be immune to most forms of magic. However Kralorela's enlightenment has not been continous, IMO. Mention exists in Cot/LoT of how the Foreign Conquerers tried to 'cure' the Kralori of their Illumination. This refers, I think to the early years of the False Dragons Ring. So the 'pure' form of illumination that the Kralori might have possessed has been heavily altered by the God Learners.
>and probably also existed
>amongst the rulers of Arkat's Dark Empire. Incidentally, I've often thought
>of the troll/human cult of Black Arkat as a possible source of illumination
>for trolls
I prefer the term Benightenment myself for Troll Illuminates. But I can't really get a handle on what the Ralian Trolls permit the practice of Illumination for. Sense Illuminates? The Bright Empire is been dead for 2000 years. Ignore Cult restrictions? Like what? Join Zorak Zoran and you'll have virtually no burdensome cult taboos that I know of. Join Arkat Kingtroll and you can learn sorcery as well. All this without the aid of illumination.
I think the Trolls of Koromandol also use Illumination/benightenment but they work on it from the Kralori model and have similar benefits.
David Dunham:
>On the other hand, matching up the participants is difficult. Which may
>tell us as much about the nature of the LBQ as anything.
>[Deleted List]
One of the main problems here is that the Carmanians, I think, have a Lightbringer Myth in which Humakt features prominently and Orlanth is unknown. Furthermore instead of going west, they seem to be Eastfarers. If the Seven Mothers used the LBQ (And I'm not saying they did) then they would have used the Carmanian model. Other variations of the LBQ also exist. The Umathelean Storm Barbarians have Nine lightbringers. This makes me agree with Andrew Joelson that the mere fact of there being Seven Mothers is not conclusive evidence of the Lightbringers Quest being used/perverted.
Tim Ellis:
> A thought occured to me this morning. Illumination frees one from the
>ties to and restrictions imposed by the gods. All beings tied to the man Rune
>are mortal, because Humakt slew Grandfather Mortal. Ralzakark has been around
>since before the great compromise. Ralzakark is illuminated.
Hang on, where was Ralzakark? The first mention I know of him is when Dorastor gets reawakened (c. 800 ST). He's virtually unknown in the records of the Broken Council. I _think_ Ralzakark is the leader of those Krjalki that appeared in Dorastor after Nysalor fought Arkat at Kartolin for the first time (ie after 419 ST).
And besides the Brithini and the Mostali are immortal but I don't see Illumination among them so I feel your 'illumination = immortality' is somewhat weak. An illumination discipline may exist to reverse the flow of aging but that's not quite the same thing.
Pam Carlson:
Spirits of Reprisal:
>Well, I like to think that SoR's can come from two sources:
>1) self-guilt. An apostate who feels guily enough can draw her own SoR.
>2) A sending by ones' clergy.
>Illumination can clearly help with the first by erasing all feelings of
>guilt. With the second type, illumination may provide a shield, or a
>spiritual invisibility to the SoR. It literally can't find you. But then,
>one would wonder how all those helpful cult spirits do manage to find you.
>Hmm.
Not really. The Illuminate has a _choice_ (subconscious, I believe) whether to accept the Spirit. When it comes to Spirits of Reprisals, Just Say No!
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