>> Considering that 'All Naskorion belongs to its Duke, and though several
>> privileged government positions are heriditary, none of the lands are
>> enfiefed',
>Do Orlanthi own land, or do they just gain the right to till it by
>performing the Great Marriage (or lesser variants)?
I think they just get assigned to till a land by the Dukes Henchmen and other thugs. The Great Marriage would be practiced by the Orlanthi of their own accord like a harvest fair to enhance the lands fertility. I have never heard of getting rights to till the land by getting permission from the local earth goddess before and I doubt Duke even cares about getting a resource consent from an overgrown dryad. Think Absolutism! That is the Duke's Philosophy!
>Same with Malkioni:
>do they really own the land, or do they just loan it from the local
>Goddess (think of Seshna in Hrestol's era...).
Since when have pious Malkioni rented land from the Earth Goddess (or even worshipped her)? Seshna was worshipped by the Serpent Kings who were condemned as pagans. And there are _no_ Malkioni peasants in Naskorion (the census says the population is 'orlanthi') although there are Malkioni Peasants in Otkorion and so forth...
>> The rural population (which is recognized as
>> Orlanthi according to the Census) probably conducts ragtag ceremonies to
>> Orlanth and Ernalda
>To civilized eyes, there are no ceremonies to Orlanth which aren't
>considered ragtag, I suppose.
Nope. What I meant that the worship of Orlanth or Worlath is ragtag because it is not _officially_ backed by the state. No largess from the Dukes Coffers to make it spectacular.
>I doubt they are aware that the Duke
>claims ownership, unless he performed the Great Marriage or a similar
>rite (e.g. like the Frankish continuation of the Nerthus _Bull_-drawn
>chariot ceremony).
Um, Joerg? If the Franks _discontinued_ this ceremony they would still be recognized as owners of the land by the peasantry. The Duke rules the land because he is the Duke of Naskorion not because he did some pagan ceremony! If any peasant tries to dispute this, then the peasant is looking at a reduced lifespan.
>> and subsidize the official ceremonies heavily.
>Meaning they pay heavy taxes? That's ordinary, in Ralios.
Above and Beyond the normal level of taxation is what I was implying. I am thinking of a tyrannical monolithic state for Naskorion.
>> Um, the neighbouring regions around Otkorion are Borin where the
>> Borists hang out,
>Hardly a majority religion even there. They are supposed to have a
>secret register, remember? I suppose the majority is of some other
>Henotheist blend, and with Surantyr's recent missionary activities,
>Otkorian faith has spread there.
A Secret Register in name only. IMO, the Register was born in the Crusade of Bailifes the Hammer against Safelster. Since Orthodox Rokarism has been declining as a force for some years now in Ralios, the Importance of the Register has falling by the wayside. When Darmangon claimed to be the Agent of the Secret Register, the most people did was to snub him whereas about 100 years before, I imagine they would have tried to invade his lands and kill him.
>> and Tinaros
>> which is ruled by Argin Terror the Nightmare Sorcerer.
>Is it? I didn't expect Argin to waste any time on mundane matters.
He is at least the nominal _ruler_ of Tinaros. I think the real power falls upon the officials who are in charge of getting the raw materials for his magics (The Procurers have to find 100 virigns for Argin to sacrifice to the Diabolical Gods for instance). They are the intermediaries between Argin's wishes and the real world.
>> I assume
>> Argin is the unnamed Third Man seeking to bring about the Dark
>> Empire and also highly uninterested in Storm Worship.
>Why do you see Argin in the tradition of Arkat?
>> considering that Valantia is a Safelstran City which was ruled by
>> Rokari Seshnela over a century ago
>Which doesn't mean that it had been Rokari or Hrestoli earlier. More
>likely it was depopulated by Bailifes and his successors because it
>wasn't...
I hardly think modern day ethnic cleansing is an accurate model. Palestine wasn't depopulated in the manner you imply because of the crusades (although some cities suffered horribly) so I don't think the Rokari crusdae managed to depopulate Safelster.
>>>Naskorion seems to disdain its barbarian neighbours, although
>>>its northern Hsunchen neighbours likely get more disdain than the somewhat
>>>settled Storm worshippers.
>> The Naskorions are of the Korioni branch of the Enerali whereas the
>> Storm Worshippers of Delela and Saug are Vustrians.
>You're talking pre-Nysaloran times, here. During both Dorastan, Arkat's
>Dark Empire and God Learner reign, such super-tribal differences had
>washed away into petty squabbles between neighbouring tribes and/or
>the large empire.
Balls. Why is Korion, Vustrian and others still dominant in the names of the countries. NasKorion, Surkorion, Otkorion? I imagine the bonds are still there in that a Korioni trusts one of his own 'tribe' before trusting a Fornaorian and certainly before a Vustrian. Think Ethnic Identities. A early 19th Century German would want to be ruled by a German King rather than a French one set up by Napolean Bonaparte (which King was the major problem). I believe that a similar situation holds for the 'supra-tribes'.
>> Historically they
>> have never liked each other and I expect the Naskorion to give the
>> Highlanders the same amount of disdain as the Hsunchen. I think there
>> will be noticiable differences between the worship of Orlanth in
>> Naskorion and Orlanth in the East Wilds.
>No doubt about that - wherever there are cities, Orlanth worship gets
>tainted with foreign ideas, at least according to the barbarian write-up
>in Genertela Players Book.
>City Orlanthi are very different to rural
>Orlanthi for instance in their range of associate deities, and their roles.
Codswallop. Get away from the Volkish attitude to the land. The Orlanthi in the City of Pavis are no different culturally than the Orlanthi in the outlying regions. The Naskorioni Peasantry also _disdain_ the East Wilds Barbarians despite their rural origins. The Highlanders interbreed with beasts, worship the Evil God of Cursed Lokamayadon and other horrors. They are not Us.
>>>Why should the Naskorion church include Urain, and not Aurochs?
>> Urain's a murderous psycho and a perfect component to the armies of
>> the Duke IMO.
>Ok, there is a rumour of Windwalking Gagarthi thanes of Harvar Ironfist,
>too, but even that seemed to stretch credibility to me.
What's the matter with the Gagarthi?
>IMO Urain is
>clearly detecting as chaotic to Storm Bull senses.
Just because KoS calls him chaotic doesn't mean that he is. Lokaymadon is also called Chaotic yet I doubt that worshippers of his cult (even if unilluminated) would have registered on the Uroxi sense. He only has bad moods not the great warpspasms of Culculain (sp?).
>> Urox in Ralios (as David Dunham points out) is more
>> associated with the Hsunchen Bemuri and thus would be disliked in
>> Naskorion, I feel.
>There aren't any Hsunchen Bemuri left in 3rd Age Ralios, are there?
>What do you think is the Ralian population descended from? Where did
>the Galanini, Bemuri and Basmoli disappear?
The Bemuri were a Hsunchen Tribe. The Hsunchen (Zebra, Bsamoli, Kvitti) are seperate from the Ralian Tribes at the Broken Council. The Hsunchen were allied with the _Vustrians_ who were opposed to the other three tribes which _included_ the Korions, Joerg! And the Primal Ancestor of the Ralian People is Eneral who is not a Hsunchen. Don't you find it a bit funny how he was 'ignored' in favour of his 'father' Galinin and the Vustrians 'renounced' the riding of horses during the Great Darkness? Could it be more probable that the Galinini _conquered_ the lowland Enerali and warred against the Highlanders and the Hsunchen? And that the origins of the Galinini later became mixed in with the lowlanders? Not every human in Glorantha is of Hsunchen origin!
The Bemuri would have adopted the ways of the Theyalanized Vustrians, IMHO and disappeared and their descendants would be recknoed by everybody as Vustrians. The Galinini although originally Hsunchen have, IMO, long since abandoned the cultural form which could allow them to be objectively classed as Hsunchen by the Dawn. Certain other Hsunchen Tribes could have been absorbed by the Galinin surviving on as the Loons.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #143
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