>> The Kingdom of War is _not_ a normal society, it is a Madness.
>Hear, hear. However, Madness is still part of the greater human experience,
>which means that there is something going on there. Even in Nazi Germany
>and Stalin's USSR, there was culture: people going about their everyday
>activities.
But the KoW has subjugated its entire function to the pursuit of its wars. It's full of Tapped Serfs and Bloodthirsty Warriors. That level of Monomania did not exist in Nazi Germnay or Stalin's Russia (although it would have had the Terror run for a few more months). One may say the Warriors have culture but the Demands of the Kingdom of War take Precedence. A Rathori Mercenary serving in the Kingdom of War will have several taboos about fighting. Yet to his commander, they count for nothing. If a Rathori kicks a fuss about being ordered to slaughter innocents, the he will be killed horribly to encourage the other Rathori mercenaries to OBEY ORDERS. This is why I don't think it is suitable for PCs to be fighting on the side of the KoW. One might as well play Broos. "You see a cow up ahead" "The Cattle herd around?" "Nope, Coast is Clear" "Okay, I rape it" "Your fellow Broo is laughing at you for your lack of imagination" "Shit..."
>The starting point has to be knowing what was there before. And
>right now, we don't have a very clear picture of that. The KoW as presented
>is one dimensional. For it to make sense as a part of Glorantha and to
>maximize MGF, we need to know what goes on within its borders as well as how
>it acts toward its neighbors.
Not necessarily. What was there before may have little relation to what is there now. A good Gloranthan example is Dorastor. Why is it a Chaos Pit? Mark Smylie painted a good picture of the cults that exist within the KoW yet he did not know what lay behind the KoW. We know it makes war and is military successful and horribly so. Those conditions define 99% of the KoW. The remaining 1% depends on what the GM thinks the Driving Force of the KOW is and how the PCs are going to stop it.
>>Whether Lord Death on a Horse does it for the Great God
>>Pookums or is a bewildered Humakti trying to keep a grip of things is
>>immaterial.
>Uh, immaterial to what?
The dangers of Ellipsis. No seriously, what I meant was that the Madness of the Kingdom of War has taken a Life of its Own. Everything has been subjugated to the demands of the War.
>If you're being run through by a KoWarrior's spear,
>it's not going to be the first thing on your mind :-). But if you're the
>Bishop of some place on the hit list, wouldn't you want to know?
But the Bishop is most probably being targeted because he is an Very Important Person whose death will demoralize the Enemies of the Kingdom of War thus ensuring their eventual victory.
>For one thing, the KoW has weaknesses, and its enemies will want to know
>what they are.
Apart from the usual tactic of being defeated on the battle field, it depends on what the GM thinks is the Secret of the KoW. Short of an announcement from Greg, I think that's the GM's perogative.
>>Complaining about the lack of apparent culture in the Kingdom of War
>>misses the point. I would only use cultural practices in the Kingdom
>>of War to bely the senselessness of it all.
>On the Glorantha as literary field level, the second statement is absolutely
>correct. It contradicts the first statement, of course, because the
>complaints have focused on the literary level as well (and some on the
>Gloranthan reality level). It may be that the KoW, like the Ducks, only
>makes sense on the literary level. OK, then. I'd rather have a
>two-dimensional or three-dimensional enemy than a one-dimensional villain.
If the Kingdom of War is one-dimensional then the Gulags, Death Camps, Trenches of the First World War, the Eastern Front and the Cultural Revolution can similarly be said to be so. It's a horrible thing and the horror impels the PCs to do something about it. It is as close as Absolute Evil as one can get to Glorantha.
Mark Smylie:
>Nick & David Hall's just-ftped Malkioni info, though containing plenty
>of speculation on the KoW from the POV of the various sects, does not
>include, frex, a sect that actually claims to have held sway in the
>Arnstor (?) region north of the Janube. They all seem to have stopped
>spreading in Dona.
Um? The Kingdom of War lies _between_ the Dona and Loskalm. So if Malkionism reached the Dona then it would have reached the region surrounding the Kingdom of War. The portion of the river nearest to the Black Forest was historically the County of Perfe which I think was part of Junora. This was dominated by Loskalm for large parts of History (save for the ban). The Black Forest where the Kingdom of War sprung from is said to be the last surviving Troll Stronghold (from Borklak's Queendom - Xemstown near Otkarnia is another matter) in Fronela. For all I know this could have been an ordinary forest full of woodsmen with the a Troll Clan in its depths (like the Sazdorf clan near Sartar).
If what you want to know is who the inhabitants of the Black Forest when the Ban fell, then you've got plenty of information: Trolls, Woodsmen, Hsunchen, Third Eye Blue and Malkioni. The KoW warps all these to make them military stronger.
>Frankly, I'm beginning to think that
>they -- whoever they are -- didn't have the foggiest idea what they were
>doing when they came up with the KoW, other than coming up with an opponent
>for the Loskalmi that isn't the Lunar Empire. The KoW is in serious danger
>of just being a big cipher.
Huh! What is Ralzakark's aims? Nobody in Glorantha has the foggiest idea save for Ralzakark and that is debatable. Yet people go into Dorastor and the lack of apparent culture is the least of their complaints. With respect to the Kingdom of War, what it _does_ and how it is doing it is the most important thing.
If I were playing the campaign Against the KoW, I would make the Driving Force for the KoW _unknown_ to those outside it with several mutally contrary schools of thought about what causes it. While Everybody Else in Fronela sees the key as Military Victory and die bloodily in trying, I would allow the PCs to discover what is happening. What the driving force is I would leave up to the GM!
For instance, let us say that the KoW warriors are initiated with the Spirit of War (like the Crusade but nastier) in the Gate of Gbaji that lies deep within the Black Forest. The PCs manage to capture some of the KoW Warriors and figure out what the noo is happening. They go to Nida and persude the Dwarves there to lend them an atomic bomb or Chaostructor which is primed to explode when thrown through the gate. The KoW is now starved of magical resource
Or if the KoW were a Nidan Decamony Plot to cleanse humanity from Fronela and LDoaH worships the War Machine which feeds him information on what to do. The PCs find out that the War Machine requires skilled maintanence and an endless supply of spare parts. They begin ambushing Nidan Decamony supply forces in the hope that the War Machine will start making mistakes...
Or perhaps LDoaH is merely a bewildered Humakti trying to get a grip on things. This is merely a variation of the Sick Fisher King who requires the Holy Grail to heal him. Not that the Grail need to be next to LDoaH's side of course. The sudden vacancy at the top will cause the KoW to undergo a spasm of civil war giving its enemies a much needed respite and an opportunity to crush it for once and for all.
In short: Use your (plural - not directed at anybody in particular) bloody imagination and quit whining about it! Don't expect Greg or Sandy to come around picking up your toys after you.
Joerg Baumgartner:
>Both [Loskalm and the Lunar Empire] have
>an enemy who promotes disorder and destruction (KoW/Argrath's Orlanth),
>and in both cases they have created their main enemy (LDoaH/Argrath) as
>a side-effect of their actions. (Harrek was trained by the Lunars, too...)
Um, Joerg? Argrath promotes disorder and destruction? Lord Death on a Horse was created by the Loskalmi? I think Nicks propoganda has had some serious side effects....
I'll ignore the remainder of the post for it was a good example of violating rule number #2 and Joerg only did it coz Nick was gone for the week IMO.
>> I think the Rokari phase of Chivalry started somewhat earlier. Ulianus
>> III founded the Tournament State of Kustria, after all. My guess is that
>> Chivalry arose as a philosophy out of Castle Coast as a 'return' to the
>> 'old ways' but really an adaptation to their exile/confinement on the bleak
>> shores of Castle Coast.
>I'm not sure. The Jrusteli Empire started out as a Crusade, most of
>which start out as chivalric affair and end with gritty pragmatical
>soldiers.
Er? How do you get Chivalry is the cause of the Crusade? Me thought it had something to do with Filthly Infidels in control of the Holy Places.
>I have no idea how life in God Learner Seshnela was like. Any takers?
Rather than being an age of High Magic, I feel that the people prayed at the Churches as they had done previously. The major difference was that the Magical nature of Malkionism dominated Society. The God Learner Wizard was seen as the bedrock of society rather than the Knight is seen now. A Lord's Strength was measured in how many God-Learner Wizards he had command of. The Men of the Knights Caste were seen as mere soldiers and guards. Loskalm with its vertical integartion of Wizards probably comes the closest to how the God Learners were.
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