Cor! Sounds good doesn't it? Pity that most of us make it up as we go along!
> An interesting theory, but sadly one which the nazis made use of.
You can say what you like about the Nazis, but they knew how to adapt myths and legends to influence and deeply affect human psyche. They were adept manipulators of these myths, much like the Godlearners or Lunars.
> Argrath's trickster betrays the Gods, and Argrath kills Wakboth while he is
lunching on them!
OK, so Argrath was "betrayed" by his trickster. In the same way, I suppose,
that Yelm had Orlanth kill him so that he could be resurrected. Argrath had
the death of the gods as one of his hidden agendas and used his trickster to
achieve this, in my opinion, thus putting the blame on the trickster -
trickster always caused trouble.
> 'And he said "There is only one secret now, and that is what we have done.
The world will remain as
> it is now, without interference from any god or goddess. Now it is a free
world, of humankind, for
> humankind, and ruled by humankind."'
Doesn't sound like an accident, does it? Ruled by humankind for humankind -
very tolerant of other people, compare like Dominic's arguments about Hitler
and Argrath/Arkat.
>Isn't Argrath killing gods a supremley *bad* thing?
Someone in our campaign made the point that if the gods were dead and the
shape of the world changed, Glorantha could be turned into Earth - no gods,
different continents etc. Not that I believe him, of course, but an
interesting idea.
> Subject: Hill of Gold ramblings
OK,. I plead ignorance. My knowledge of the Hill of Gold Quest comes from RQ2
and RQ3 published sources, together with odds and ends from Convention
write-ups etc. Most of the things from this version I have never heard of.
Would it be possible for people to post the current (full) versions of the myth or the hero quest? There is obviously a lot about this that I do not know.
> Simon Phipps:
> =============
> Simon Phipps writes a TOE (Theory of Everything) for Yelmalio.
Sorry to be picky folks, but try to get my name right, not that it matters to
me, but for posterity and all that :-)
> Simon Phipps writes a TOE (Theory of Everything) for Yelmalio.
Not at all, just some ideas on how it may have happened. Obviously, it does not cover all things, but is a pretty good go. Only Greg Stafford can write a TOE, and he's normally wrong anyway. If peole think that I believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong, then I apologise, they are only my theories.
> The best image/idea of KL comes from Trollpak, and is that She's one of
those giant figures made up of
> many normal-sized figures, as one sometimes sees in medieval illustrations.
What, like Arkat?
>>If Yelmalio were Ernalda's son, he would also not be mentioned.
> This is *bad* reasoning.
Thanks
> The lack of any such thing leads me to conclude that Yelmalio and Ernalda
were not known by Yelm of
> Yuthubars during his lifetime and I see no reason to make them so.
Maybe they were not known to each other in Yelm's original lifetime, but
after The First and Second
Councils, The Emperor in the Orlanthi myth was permanently identified with
Yelm, thus Ernalda, The Empress, was identified as Yelm's wife. Or do you
think that 1600 years of mythological research should be abandoned? Glorantha
is a constantly-changing world, as I said before, and the mythologies are not
fixed.
Also, Dendara was recognised as having been loyal to Yelm while he was lead astray by Ernalda, so ended up marrying him in the end (I can't remeber where I saw that, possibly in Gods Of Glorantha?).
> > If Ernalda was married to Yelm and left him for some upstart barbarian,
surely we would see a > 'divorce' myth or a 'kidnap' myth in Dara Happan
Literature rather than the complete ignorance found in > Pletonius's
Writings?
That would be admitting that Yelm made a mistake. Unthinkable to the Dara Happans who believe that Yelm is perfect and always was. (The Sun shines out of his backside!) Far better to hide it away and pretend it never happened - the refuge of all patriachal, uptight societies. Agfter all, if people knew that Yelm was divorced, then everyone would be able to do it - what about family values then? Where would society go if everyone could divorce?
We do see a kidnap myth in Yelmalio - one of the proposed reasons for Yelmalio going to the Hill of Gold is to regain Ernalda for his father (RQ Con Compendium - Harald Smith's story).
> If his son remained faithful to Yelm despite the sad case of his mother,
then wouldn't he have been
> *adopted* by some other goddess to give him politically correct
credentials?
Maybe, unless he was adopted by the Storm Tribe beforehand, thus proving unfaithful to Yelm. After all, he was not on Antirius'Ark and must have lived somewhere - not all the world was covered by the folld, despite what the Dara Happans say.
Anyway, I only suggested Ernalda as Yelmalio's mother, to solve certain problems.
>>The cult of Caladra and Aurelion has a single priesthood, yet is a fusion
cult.
> You've slipped up here, the Priesthood is shared between *two* people.
Whoops, slipped up, dearie me. A single priesthood, a single status, but two people. A twin priesthood. If it reflected the structure of the deities, the female priest would be like Caladra and the male priest like Aurelion. This is clearly not the case, as both priests can be of either sex, the roles are shared as stated in the write-up and the Priests do not have separate titles. This is clearly one priesthood shared by two people, a subtle difference but a diference nonetheless.
> Orlanth has been argued in the past to be a fusion of a Culture Hero cult
(ie Clan Chieftains) and
> generic storm worship (ie the Godis).
And Gonn Orta has been argued to be Genert. Just because something has been argued does not make it true.
Admittedly, Orlanth has changed - the cult of Orlanth Rex only appeared during the EWF period. However, you can equally well argue that Orlanth, and the other powerful deities, have many hidden depths which have to be uncovered by HeroQuesting. So, Orlanth Adventurous' aspects have been revealed by different people to those researching Orlanth Thunderous' powers and mythos. Similarly, Yelmalio's complex history, mythology and philosophy could have been uncovered by Elves, Ostrich Riders, Horse Riders, Orlanthi, Dara Happans and others both independently and together.
Something tells me, Peter, that you do not agree with my opinions.
Anyway, enough for now
Simon
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #635
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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