First of all, the romans, if we assume they fight like lunars, would generally sweep their way through any number of orlanthi rabble. In the real world, magic, divine intervention and horrors aren't brought into the equation, so my argument is always going to miss the mark with respect to glorantha. Everyone else seems to be drawing parallels with the real world, so i thought i'd give my two-penneth on the matter.
(gurgle) Iron age rabble vs. highly trained roman veterans = big heap of
butchered barbarians. I'm sure we're all going to start flicking through
our personal guides about 'what happened in history' to try to save the
idea that there is this 'eternal return' of celtdom in trashing romans.
Frankly, the 'celt' losses far outweigh the wins (which were often either
sneaky or on favourable ground). Yes...yes...barbarians in north german
'forests' slaughter lots of roman soldiers. However, these peripheral
areas had been trading and fighting with the roman semi-periphery for
centuries. I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption to state that
the so-called 'barbarians' were probably comprised of highly romanised
warriors. Therefore i feel the 'celtic' chestbeating should cease - the
romans in this case were really effectively beaten by another group of
romans, aided by surprise and favourable ground. Add to this the roman
idea of 'the wilderness' as representing evil, and you have quite a good
case for even a division of romans driving armoured cars being beaten.
the mention of 'barbarians' in the roman record probably indicates hubris
in refusing to admit that it was essentially their own kind which
massacred them ('sneaky barbarian bastards - they always win by
cheating').
The evidence in britain indicates carnage. The many vitrified hillforts in
scotland correspond exactly to roman expiditions marching up there (hack,
hack, aaarghhh the romans have won). The vitrified hillforts were
torched. A classic roman tactic. Caesar mentions it somewhere - the
barbarians careened about on their chariots, waving spears at the roman
troops, while iron age women and children watched from the sidelines as
if it was a football match. The chariots came close to the troops, then
veered away - it was a taunting game. The barbarians were scarcely out of
the cradle compared with the ruthless determination of the romans. The
romans then advanced under cover of their shields (having butchered the
poor fools outside the hillfort), as a rain of stones clattered
ineffectually off their shield formation. Slowly crawling forward, the
romans then lit a fire by the hillfort walls, and waited while it
destroyed the walls. Obviously, by this point, the barbarians were
probably terrified by the unearthly dishonourable tactics of the
newcomers. Then the soldiers charged in, killed all who resisted, and
took whatever slaves they desired.
When i was excavating at castell henlyss in sw wales (it isn't in the
'hillfort dominated zone,' therefore was quite a small hillfort), on my
particular patch, by the entrance, i discovered a great heap of smooth
slingstones, piled up ready for combat. The problem with the 'barbarians'
(which i accept is probably an unfairly emotive term) was that for them
warfare was a somewhat ritualised affair - no one would dream of
slaughtering a whole tribe. However, for the romans, they just hewed
their way through anything which got in the way of conquest - if it
refused to become romanised, that is.
At Hod Hill hillfort in britain, the biggest roundhouse was found to have
been burnt down - around the remains was found a number of roman ballista
points. It seems a reasonable interpretation that what happened was that
the chief was cowering in his roundhouse, and the romans just peppered
him with ballistae from afar ('haha, burn, barbarian, burn').
There is more evidence, but frankly, i can't be bothered at the moment.
However, applying this to glorantha i would suggest that most of the time
the efficiency of the lunars would win out (as it did do in most cases).
Even though the lunar empire eventually collapses, i feel it is foolish
to see the inhabitants of sartar as reverting to their old barbarian
ways. By this time, many of them may have been 'lunarised' - who wants to
go and live in a smelly wattle and daub roundhouse, when you can
luxuriate in your villa (of course, the slaves can live in a roundhouse
on the outskirts of your estate, but after all, they are slaves).
Obviously, there are different cultural prferences to 'dirt' and leisure.
But i can't see a bright new orlanthi culture arising from the ashed of
the lunar disaster. All things must pass.
Dominic.
End of Glorantha Digest V3 #21
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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