>Nick Effingham vs Peter Metcalfe
Come, come, a bit too dramatic isn't it?
But his text happily divides the difference between the two versions of Time.
Pete M.:
>After Grandfather Mortal was killed, they would.
and
>>As I've said
>>before, IMHO the aging of a being in Godtime could be directly relative to
>>how weary they are of life instead of how many years they have spent alive.
>> Hunting seasons, seasonal weather changes etc... can easily be put down to
>>which god is in control of the area at that time.
>
>Which in both cases is exactly how they see it as occuring now. So why
>the need to postulate a timeless godtime?
But would they believe in aging? They aren't aging because of time, therefore you mihgt have a young, virile father whose son has turned into a eldery man whose about to push up the daisies. Ergo, time ain't working.
As a side point, have you ever wondered why the Orlanthi call time Time rather than "the Net that Seperates the Planes". I think the name alone implies that pre-Time time didn't exist in the eyes of the Orlanthi.
>[description of various times when the sunstopped etc...]
These are all the result of HeroQuesting. That is, going back to pre-Time and altering the Cosmos from there. HeroQuesting brings the Godtime to the Mundane World, it cheats in effect on the Compromise.
>WF is not the Orlanthi PoV. It is the God Learner PoV and reflects
>their experiences on the Heroplane.
IMO, the Orlanthi society is heavily influenced by Gl perspective, and that most of the material Greg wrote is Orlanthi/GL POV.
>But the concept of a genealogy itself is a timely event. There was
>a time when X lived and a time before he lived. Ergo the Orlanthi
>believe in time.
I can't see how this proves the belief in linear time measured in years. Sure Orlanthi believe in the statement you said. They know there was a time when Orlanth lived, they know what he did, and they know there was a Cosmos without him at some point. They just don't measure it in years. Orlanth did not rule for ten thousand years, he ruled from the time he took the Throne from Yelmup until Chaos arrived.
>[existence of the IG]
>The Creation of the World and the Relevations of Malkion don't count?
The Creation of the World counts. But then, in the RW people still denounce the existence of God even though the universe obviously exists around them. The Revelations of Malkion don't count IMHO -- Malkion may just have been some mad old coot who had taken one too many magic mushrooms....
David Cake:
>>Winter
>>would be when Valind invades etc....
>
> but if Valind invades for the same quarter of every year, then this
>bears a remarkable resemblence to regular seasons. Which is pretty much how
>I think it happened within the Godtime (well, things were different during
>the Great Darkness). Which leads you to the conclusion that the difference,
>if it existed was one of intentionality if anything.
But what if Winter came straight after Summer and skipped autumn because the
God of Winter was forced away by the God of Summer? What if there came about
that there were no seasons because the gods were either fighting or just not
intrested in that area of land?
Time organised the seasons so that they all came about at the correct time,
and all had their own fair share.
>>But I believe that if you ask the Orlanthi godi if time existed
>>before Time, and then plagued him with paradoxes *like* the CA paradox, then
>>they would happily admit that time was more of a storytelling aid than
>>anything to worry about.
>
> I think he'd accuse you of God-Learnerism or Nysalor riddling, hit
>you a bit, and if you still wouldn't shut up, run you out of town.
Some of them would. But a Lhankor Mhy scholar would have his own ideas, theories etc... I think they'd send you away to meditate etc.. but this has already been covered.
>>Look at WF in the Gods and Goddesses section where it
>>*specifically states* time does not exist and all actions were taken
>>simultaneously in Godtime.
>
> Maybe Greg has, umm... changed his mind? Entekosiad is set within
>'Godtime', and it certainly doesn't read like time does not exist and all
>actions where taken simultaneously.
I don't think we've been gregged at all, we just know that the Dara Happans, and many other cultures, believe in Time whereas the Orlanthi don't. The Entekosiad is most defintely not Orlanthi POV and is not part of this debate, as I see it.
>Merely the fact that Lokaymadon is illuminated, and able to convince
>himself that he is correct, shouldn't convince Orlanth, who should be
>pretty much tipped off by Harmast, huge changes to worship (the lack of
>proper initiations, frex), etc. But Orlanth isn't a free willed being who
>can decide who gets his magic and who gets the spirits of reprisal.
Which is the reason we use IMG why Illuminated Humakti can't just take +2000
to every stat and be done with it. But Humakt doesn't send a spirit of
reprisal, because the damn things can't get at him (I don't know why
Illumination renders you immune to SoR, a few good ideas have been put
forward though) so he sends some very powerful rune lords etc... to do the
job for him.
Oh look!! Orlanth sent Harmast to kill Lokaymaydon!! What coincedence... :)
> There probably is a real Orlanth behind the mask though - but he
>never does anything on the mundane world at all, you can glimpse him on the
>heroplane though.
I'm sure there is, somewhere.
All IMO,
Nick E.
- -------------------------------------------------Nick the Shaman of Thed
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