AF>>The G:G language rules partially support this, but also indicate that
>>DH and NP are more dissimilar, both to each other and to the Pelorian
>>Farmer Languages, than any of the PFLs are to each other.
>Agreed, though I would think that the Pelorian farmer languages would be
>vastly variable. G:G predated Entekosiad by a lot. My point is, I can
>see a large are of Pelandan influence in western Peloria, while farmer
>languages in eastern Peloria may have a Theyalan base. The languages of
>the river peoples and the marsh folk of the Thunder delta are closely
>related, and probably in the Pelandan family.
Why do you think that the East Pelorian Farmers are Theyalans? They never got that far nor ruled Peloria for large periods of time.
Me>> The Balazarings and the Jarstics have just as much a Pelorian basis
>Would they? I think they may be Theyalan or even Hsuncheon based.
Both are said by G:CotHW to be 1/10 related to Pelorian and not part of the Hsunchen and Theyalan Tongues. Jarst was settled by Kastok AFAIK to help him in his battles against the Horse Nomads. I think the settlers would be more likely to be landless pelorians rather than hired Theyalans considering that the Kingdom of Dragon Pass made an alliance with the Pure Horse Tribe who were Kastok's enemies according to RoC/Pavis.
Balazar (or rather Votankiland) appears to have a long relationship with the Pelorians since before the Great Darkness. The Votanks were regularly raided for slaves and so their speech would have been known in Dara Happa. But when the Theyalan missionaries first came to the Pelorians, nobody understood their tongue and so they were called the strangers.
This does imply that the tongue of the Horsemen was comprehensible to the Pelorians and is probably the basis of what Pam argues for below. But I think that the Horse Riders that ruled Peloria were Zarkosite Pelorians rather than Pentans having picked up the horses from stray pentan herds near Zarkos (where the Jenarong genealogy said they came).
After the defeat of the Horse Riders, some would have accepted the new system while the others would have fled to Pent to live among the indigenous Pentans there. The Pelorian knowledge of Cows may have been the origin of the Cow controversy in Pent.
Pam proposes that Dara Happan is more related to the Pentan tongue than anything else.
>Jenarong horsemen ruled
>the Pelorian bowl, taking tribute from the farmers. After several
>generations, many fell into the trap of soft city life and adopted some
>of the old Pelandan city-running traditions & deities. Then they allied
>with the First Council and threw out the remaining Jenarongs who never
>settled down, forcing them into Pent. A hundred years later, Khordavu
>heroquests to put together the Yelm cult from various bits of Jenarong,
>Hyaloring, and old Pelandan deities, (having gone to the "Heort School
>of Deistic Synthesis", down in Zarkos), and hires Plentonius to make it
>all look ancient and continuous.
This implies that the World Council got *its* chronology wrong which makes it difficult for me to accept. Notablely the date of the missions to Peloria and their susequent 'disappearance' occur when the world council has already kicked the nomads out.
>This would leave a tripolis based "Dara Happan" culture which reveres
>the sun, and horses, and considers itself to be superior to and
>different from the surrounding farmers. Might they still speak an old
>Janarong-derived tongue?
But the Khordavu dynasty doesn't have any reverence to horses. Rather I think the war against the horse 'nomads' was an internal conflict between a horse riding aristocracy on one side and the city dwellers on the other. The city dwellers won because they were able to give the cities more autonomy *and* provide a framework for resolving political disputes.
>>FWIW, Antirius IMO originally comes from Pelanda and is related
>>to Turos (cf the description of him in the GRAY where he is the
>>patron of the assemblies). The Ant in the front of his name merely
>>means something like 'Rightful' Turos.
>Intriguing. What do you think of the idea that Anritius came out of the
>Hyaloring tradition?
I don't think so. People would usually have some cult attached to the Sun the very *minute* it rose at the Dawn. Thus the Darjiinians had Manimat as the Sun. Given that Antirius has roots in Dara Happa, IMO Antirius would have been thought to be the Sun at the Dawn and not as a result of Hyaloring occupation.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #297
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