>Joerg Baumgartner and Peter Metcalfe disagree with each other.
>>(Habitually, but in particular about the Sons of Vingkot. ;-)
>> You're quoting an incomplete source, it seems. I have seen a longer version
>What source are _either_ of you quoting? An executive summary might be
>of some general interest.
The sources I have been using are:
There is another document apparently but it is only available to those who have partaken of Greg's Wastebasket (he says sniffily).
Philip Hibbs:
>>Newtlings
>Never seen that one done - have you got any Occupation Experience charts
>for them?
Elder Secrets.
Joerg Baumgartner:
[midget cattle]
>>Why? As far as I'm concerned, they are ordinary sized cattle (and they
>>are ridden by the Lendarshi for example). How else is the avearge
>>gloranthan farmer going to get decent oxen to do the heavy work if the
>>only cattle he has are midgets?
>Ever wondered why it takes eight oxen to make up a plow team? If the beasts
>were Scottish Highland bull size, two would be enough, maybe four, but
>eight? There is no kind of light plow eight modern-sized oxen would not
>break in no time short.
Amazing. One obscure phrase in the Report of the Orlanthi and Joerg transforms all the cattle to stunted midgets. As if the proposal to have Elves as hive minds weren't alien enough. If the cattle were really all that small then why aren't the Orlanthi hooking up ordinary sized *horses* which could do the job better (even without a horse collar)? Methinks the team implies rotation of the oxen on the plow rather than a full component of oxen.
[Hyaloring sharing of mounts]
>>Which could have been accomplished by simple theft or adoption
>>of refugee horse riders by the Elmali.
>Funny, though, that there are practically no such cases in eastern Sartar,
>where there are bisons and sables aplenty to raid.
Because the Orlanthi now having a tradition of horse riding (ie the Pol Joni) do not steal bison and sables to ride but for cattle purposes.
[A tangle of quotes violating rule #2 snipped but summarized as follows: Joerg posits that the Hyalorings must have had contact with Prax in their formative stages because they know Peaceful Cut]
>>Peaceful Cut is a technique known to every hunting culture in Glorantha.
>Yes. Orlanthi hunters use it, too. Orlanthi herders don't. Orlanthi urban
>butchers don't, either, which might be a reason why there are so many
>grounded Praxians working in butchery in Pavis - they are devout Praxians
>trying to lessen the evil city ways.
What makes you think that Orlanthi herders and butchers don't use Peaceful Cut? Have you ever tried to slaughter an animal in an agitated state? IMO *every* human culture (even the Malkioni but not the tusk riders) that slaughters animals for food knows Peaceful Cut (or a variant thereof). Since the cults of Voriof and Barntar have not been written up yet, I see no reason not to assume that the Orlanthi do not know Peaceful Cut.
>>>The [horse riders] venerate Horse-Eiritha by another name.
>>Hippoi, Arandayla/Reladiva and Gamara are not Eiritha. If they
>>were, then the Praxians would be eating horses without any problems.
>Yes. There might be some myth how horse-Eiritha betrayed Paps-Eiritha, or
>Mother-Eiritha, and was excluded from the circle of Eirithas (Sable-,
>Bison-, etc.).
But there *isn't*. Look at the origins of the Zebra-Tribe - there is no myth about any mythical contact between the Pure Horse Tribe and the Praxians mentioned there.
[For the Saird Hyalorings to reach the Redlands from Saird, I point out they would have to go through hostile territory, hostile terrain and/or both]
>I'd have gone straight through Tork. There was no mad sultanate there,
>then.
But it has a reputation of being Chaos Haunted. Valare Addi remarks that a Chaos Horde made the pass there. Why do you think Jannisor Moonchaser imprisoned the Mad Sultannate there?
[As for why Pent wasn't occupied by the Bird-riders, Joerg says there were similar horse-riders there so that when the Hyalorings came, they melded in]
>>How did they get to be _similar_ that the Hyalorings managed to
>>become dominant *if* they managed to reach Pent?
>Riding horses instead of birds, for a start. Common foes, better magic, and
>you get a nobility which can impose itself and its religion on larger tribes.
The Hyalorings/Jenarongs would be near annihilated by the time they get to the alleged safety of the Redlands. How do you think they manage to set themselves up as a nobility in Pent? They lost whatever strength they had to 'impose' themselves on the Pelorian Cities - what makes you think the Pentans are going to lie down and let the refugees walk over them?
>>>Then why were the Praxians so eager to fight their ancient enemies at
>>>Argentium Thri'ile?
>>Who says the Praxians thought the Horse Riders at Argentium Thri'ile
>>were their ancient enemies?
>I do. I cannot find a text source right now, though, which IMO just shows
>that the Praxians and their history aren't covered consistently in any
>supplement.
You can't find a text source because there is no source which states that the Praxians thought the Pentans were their age old enemies at Argentium Thri'ile. And contrary to your assertion, we have a wealth of material dealing with the Praxians before they rode - such as ToTRM#14 Praxian special. The Basmoli figure largely in the proto-Praxian corpus but the Pentan Horse Riders do not. Perhaps there was no contact between the Pentans and the Praxians?
>>And if they were so hated then why did
>>the Praxians appear on the battlefield on only the fourth day? Surely
>>they would have been raring for a chance to get those bastards on the
>>very first?
>Apparently they had to move into the back of the enemy cavalry to spring the
>trap, while Orlanthi and trolls bore the brunt of the horse-riders' attacks.
>There are only few informations on that battle, Dorastor: Land of Doom
>speaks of a trap for the horse riders, Uz Lore just states that it were the
>Praxians who made the difference.
It would have to be an astoundingly stupid commander who springs a cunning trap for his enemies on the *fourth* day of the battle. Most commanders usually try to execute such cunning plans on the first day of the battle. Now the absense of the Praxians indicates that they were nowhere *near* Argentium Thri'ile when the battle was first joined. Hardly the actions of a people whose hatred for a remote enemy (whom they have not seen for nigh on 2000 years) is so great that they have marched at least 1000 leagues through foreign lands to exterminate from the face of the earth? To borrow a phrase from Nick, it's like saying the Gulf War was fought to avenge the Battle of Kadesh.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #314
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