Arf>>One of my players has a Basmoli character based upon the
>>description in ToTRM.
>Which issue of ToTRM? (Clearly one I don't have :(
ToTRM#14.
Joerg Baumgartner:
[midget cattle]
>>Amazing. One obscure phrase in the Report of the Orlanthi and Joerg
>>transforms all the cattle to stunted midgets.
>I'm just applying real world historical facts to Glorantha. Sorry that this
>is news to most of you, it was to me when I read it in the excavation
>reports on Hedeby (and they are a boooooooring read, when it comes to size
>and frequency of chicken legs - I gave up halfway through that). There is
>anecdotal evidence for the lesser size of Germanic cattle elsewhere.
Waving the archeological excavations at hedby as proof the Orlanthi Cattle are small is just as relevant as waving archaeological reports about the Shetland Islands to prove that all horses in glorantha are tiny. The Hedeby model may be applicable for the Ygg's Isle but the Orlanthi have long since been exposed to bigger cattle which comes from living near Esrolia.
[peaceful cut]
>>Joerg posits that the Hyalorings must have had contact with Prax in their
>>formative stages because they know Peaceful Cut
>>What makes you think that Orlanthi herders and butchers don't
>>use Peaceful Cut?
>Rather: Who makes me think that: Sandy Petersen, in direct conversation
>about this.
So? What did he say that made you think that the Orlanthi don't use peaceful cut? Look at Islam where they use Halal slaughtering to kill sheep. If that isn't a variant of peaceful cut, then I don't know what is.
[Hyalorings]
>>>There might be some myth how horse-Eiritha betrayed Paps-Eiritha, or
>>>Mother-Eiritha, and was excluded from the circle of Eirithas (Sable-,
>>>Bison-, etc.).
>>But there *isn't*. Look at the origins of the Zebra-Tribe - there
>>is no myth about any mythical contact between the Pure Horse
>>Tribe and the Praxians mentioned there.
>Fine. So how comes the resistance to accept the horse, except in bondage?
>When or where, and most of all how, was this caused? I don't buy the whole
>stuff as reaction to the Pure Horse tribe invasion.
Er, Joerg. 'Except in Bondage and sundered from Kin' is a dismissive reply to Joraz's entreaties by the Priestesses at the Paps. He has just enslaved some of their kin and sundered the others from Prax and now he wants to settle down! So suggesting that his horses *might* be accepted in bondage is merely a polite way of saying 'Go Fuck Yourself' methinks.
[Here follows a complicated set of quotes dealing with how the Hyalorings disappeared from Saird only to reappear in Pent and the Redlands]
JB>>>I'd have gone straight through Tork. There was no mad sultanate
>>>there, then.
>>But it has a reputation of being Chaos Haunted. Valare Addi
>>remarks that a Chaos Horde made the pass there.
>After being turned by the Unity Battle, yes, for the same reason: Tork
>offered the most convenient way east. And the "Hyaloring migration from
>Nivorah" occurred before the Unity Battle.
What Hyaloring Migration are you talking about? There has only been one migration out of Saird and that is the Pure Horse Migration of Vuranostum which occured *after* the Dawn.
>>Why do you
>>think Jannisor Moonchaser imprisoned the Mad Sultannate there?
>Because a chaos horde successfully went through it before? Come on. Jannisor
>succeeded because he found a willing ally in the earth forces at home there.
What earth forces wants to imprison Chaos hordes on its own territory?
>>The Hyalorings/Jenarongs would be near annihilated by the time they get
>>to the alleged safety of the Redlands.
>After crossing their own river, at their own centre of power, and marching
>through an open gap of a non-militant people? By whom would they have been
>annihilated? The advancing ice?
Do you happen to know the time period under discussion? We are talking (or at least I thought I was) about the post dawn destruction of the Hyalorings and the Jenarongs. We have agreed that there are already horse-riders in Pent. I am disputing your view that the postdawn horse tribes in Peloria safely made it over hostile territory to reach the Redlands and from their miracolously subvert the culture of the Horse Riders to an exact carbon copy of their own.
In particular, Holay lies to the east of Saird and being occupied by hostile Heortlings makes me doubt that the Sairdite Hyalorings could even make it into Tork.
>>How do you think [the Hyalorings] manage to
>>set themselves up as a nobility in Pent? They lost whatever strength
>>they had to 'impose' themselves on the Pelorian Cities
>Were the Nivorah people ever dominant anywhere in or north of Alkoth? I
>doubt that.
Look up Vuranostum in the Fortunate Succession and tell me where he came from and what cities he managed to conquer.
>>What makes you think the Pentans are going to lie down and let the
>>refugees walk over them?
>The same effect the Pure Horse tribe had in Prax, only among people
>sufficiently similar to be absorbed. At least some of them, the Jenarongs
>and a couple of other rider folks obviously weren't subsumed.
It's not good enough to magically wave your hands and say that the Hyalorings and the Jenarongs managed to exterminate every last remant of the hitherto unknown Pentan culture and replace it with of their own. In addition to this, the Praxian Pure Horse Tribe made an organized invasion and had the backing of the Kingdom of Dragon Pass in the battle of Necklace Horse. This is not the same situation as refugees fleeing to the Redlands.
>>Perhaps there was no contact between the Pentans and the Praxians?
>You don't want it, I still do. Let's disagree. Your evidence is as
>bad as mine.
I like this. Just snip out all my evidence and claim it's bad...
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