From: <TTrotsky_at_aol.com>
<< Do herd-men have beards?>>
The Morokanth shave them to make rope and stuff out of their hair (they haven't got as much as bison, llamas, etc.). so a lot of the time, no. But it has to grow long enough to be useful for making anything out of, and I'm sure they resemble normal humans when left unshaved.
Me:
Pretty much all agreeable to me. Note that Herd-Men RESEMBLE humans. That
they have beards seems to be accepted by most of us, and there has been a
picture or two of them with beards.
Trotsky: Indeed, a few of them *are*
humans who've been zapped by the Fix INT spell (as opposed to being born as
'natural' herd men). I don't think their beards would fall off when this
happened... :-)
Me: I don't either. Some kind of sudden change might be funny tho.
Trotsky:
<<Do they even have the same hair-patterns as humans?>>
I'd think so. This is due to levels of sex hormones and such, which would not differ that much between normal humans and herd men IMO. Same for male pattern baldness, which you mentioned later.
Me: Um, different groups of humans have different patterns. I have a lot more hair than, say, David Cheng, but does this have to mean that I have a stronger sex-drive than he does? (Hi David! Not trying to be offensive here. You are certainly more intelligent than I am, whether you think I'm a genius or not.) It seems to me that the Chinese keep their numbers up fairly effectively. :) I thot Herd-Men have different fertility cycles from humans, just like most herd-animals do. The "levels of sex-hormones and such" between Herd-Men and humans must be different.
Trotsky: Again, if you let them get old enough, they would go grey, just like most other mammals do.
Me: None of our dogs and cats turned grey, tho dogs and opposums often lose a lot of the hair on their backs when they get old. Which "most mammals" turn grey? I really have never noticed this. The backs of older MALE gorrillas do.
Trotsky:
<<Do they look much like one of the human races? Are there different "racial
traits" among them?>>
The 'natural' herd men are descenced from natives of Prax who lost out to the Morokanth when it was decided who got to be eaten and who got to do the eating. So, IMO, they look Praxian. However, I'm sure there would be small differences, just as High Llama riders don't look like Sable riders, let alone Impala riders! They'd be at least this different.
Me: Mostly well and good. I think tho that the human-shaped members of the Morokanth fourleg/twoleg pair were of their own "race", as Bison-Riders, Impala-Riders, etc. are of different "races". "Praxian" is a cultural and linguistic term, but not a racial one.
Trotsky: And again, you
can always grab an Agimori and Fix INT him if you really want. I personally
doubt this happens much, but the fact that the Fix INT spell exists must mean
that it happens some times.
Me: Of course it happens, and can be used when desired by the GM for MGF! It won't happen often as there are only just so many Agimori, and they are rather averse to this practice.
Trotsky: BTW, my heretical theory is that a Fix INTed human is not the same as a herd man, but I gather from discussions with other players that I'm in the minority here!
Me: I'm considering going along with you there. I think there are some differences which remain. I think they can interbreed tho, and so we get weird hybrid Herd-Men.
From: Kevin Rose <vladt_at_interaccess.com> responding to me:
> Daniel: I don't want to spend ten hours a day eating grass and bushes.
Do herd-men have human-like vocal cords? You'd have the advantage/disadvantage
> that you couldn't impregnate human women, as your body is that of a different
> species.
Kevin: They are not a different species. It's a magical difference, not a physical difference. To quote (more or less) from Borderlands:
"A person that becomes a beast loses Intelligence and Charisma. It becomes herbivous, able to live off the plains. It can no longer have intelligent offspring with its former kind. "A beast that becomes a human gains Intelligence and Charisma. IT becomes omnivorous, requiring the same quality of food that people eat. He can still have fertile offspring with his former kind, but they will be unintelligent."
Me: Becoming an herbivore capable of living off grass and bushes entails undergoing physical changes to one's digestive system. No longer being able to have intelligent offspring could entail physical change, but doesn't have to in Glorantha. Herd-Men are a different species from humans. Some of this is due to magical differences, as you point out.
Kevin:
This applies to humans or the beast riders animals. This implies that an
awakened bison needs much better quality food than a regular bison
Me: I think they wrote this wrong, meaning it only to apply to the two-leggers, but it might be interesting. An awakened animal might very well want better food, whether it NEEDS it or not.
Kevin:
Borderlands does explicitly lay out a techinque to build a spy in which
you capture a person, turn them into a herdman and bind a cooperative
spirit into the body. The new person will be a vegetarian, but its a
fairly nasty trick. If you look at some of Sandy's past discussions as to
morocanth slave control techiques it seems to be the sort of thing they
would do without a second thought.
Me: We Praxians would do it without a first thot! Vegetarian is one thing, being biologically a grass-and-bush-eater is not necessarily the same thing.
Andy Sutton <Andy_at_aztecnology.demon.co.uk> responds to my statement:
>I really doubt they (Herd-Men) even have human-like vocal-cords tho.
Andy: I don't think I can agree with this one. I think that the agreement between the tribes of Prax which separated men from the animals indicates that Herdmen will have the same base physiology as Gloranthan men.
Me: Altho Morokanth speak Praxian, and aren't capable of living off bushes, because they've become four-legged humans. Herd-Men have become animals, and there are physiological differences between them and humans.
And now I get around to actually looking at sources. Borderlands Referee's Handbook, page 27: "Herd-men look exactly like humans to the UNTRAINED EYE BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES...Herd-men are herbivorous - they can live on LEAVES, GRASS, BARK and other vegetation of the chaparral. While they are CLOSE ENOUGH (implying NOT the same) to humans to interbreed, any young will be unintelligent herd-men 50% (that is pretty darn close tho) of the time."
What about explaining the digesting of cellulose without saying Herd-Men have four stomachs? Can we say there is some simple difference added magically so that they can do what we can't, but without there being much difference? Magically added cellulose-digesting enzymes? Let's hope Sandy gets into this. On the other point; if a human (or Morokanth) becomes an animal it loses the power of speech. I think humans in the supposed RW who suffer serious brain-damage are sometimes still capable of speech, altho their intelligence may be reduced to that of an animal. Speech-lose due to the Alter Creature spell might be better explained by a magical removal of the capability rather than a physical one such as change of vocal cords. Then we could still train Herd-Men to mimic words the way parrots do. Herdy want a Cracker! Daniel
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