Peter :
> JR>> I agree with Peter here. The Mayor represents the city residents on the
> >> city ring.
>
> >Hm. That's what I meant. So, I agree with Peter too !
>
> When I first said this, you responded "No, it's the other way
> round [...]".
Yeah, sorry about that. I think I mistook your original emphasis. Shan't bother explaining what I understood instead ... :-(
> >But : in a small city like Boldhome, anyone who wants to be involved
> >politically can be.
>
> Boldhome is a big city of 10,000 souls.
Small enough for full integration (but let's not get carried away !!) into City politics to be generally feasible. Not to say that everyone has lots of political clout; but many people have a little.
> >Bumping people off (except for bloody foreigners)
> >doesn't really work (except in extreme cases, or where criminal Rings
> >are involved) because whoever it was, someone is probably there,
> >who'll demand wergeld, or blood, in return, or will carry out some
> >other violent or non-violent (but financially disastrous) form of
> >reprisal. And almost no-one can afford to pay Wergeld.
>
> Wergild payment is not automatic. If you are strong enough, the other
> guy can forget about collecting wergild.
Certainly. But no-one's alone in the Orlanthi system, as symbolized by a poem in the Orlanth cult write-up; also, see Orlanth's First Ring mythology. And KoS. More below.
> Check
> out what Odysseus does to Thersites in the Illiad, for example. He
> beats him up in full view of the council and nothing more is heard
> of him in the rest of the Illiad.
Great example.
In similar situations, the Orlanthi might exhibit similar behaviour.
But not (normally) in peace time, at home. Most people have *some* political connections, in such small places. Usually *indirect* connections. But everyone belongs to a bloodline at least, almost always to a Clan, and a Tribe, often to a City, and to the Kingdom. This means that someone who is injured has several legal (and extra-legal) options open to him. And if someone is injured, then his family is too, and sometimes his clan. Which is where Hero Wars Player Characters get involved. Perhaps the bread they have on their table for lunch everyday is baked in town by a kinsman, and sometime drinking companion. Well, if someone starts 'leaning' on the poor guy (if he hasn't been paying some kind of nasty little protection money, or whatever), bingo !! PC involvement ...
This is just one example, but that baker has a political connection
(the PC). Other political connections are mostly just so trivial,
and often based upon mutual sympathy of random individuals.
Or Family connections. In any case, onus is then placed upon the
'friend' to do something about the situation. If clan honour has been
damaged, the situation might be brought to the attention of the Tribal
council, etc.. This might lead to a court case, to a knife in the
back
(with various council members 'too busy to look into it'),
to a judicial duel, to financial penalties, to a Hero Wars scenario,
to a formal demand for wergeld, etc...
I disagree though that violence would be the usual solution to any
problem. In a Hero Wars scenario, it would, of course. But HW
scenarios
hardly represent a normal state of day-to-day business in Sartar.
Nor, probably, the Iliad : daily life in iron age southern Europe.
Normally, non-violent solutions are preferred to violent ones. Violent
solutions are liable to produce escalating violent reactions.
(Achilles.)
Luckily, Orlanthi society is based on Orlanth's Laws, which provide
various alternative solutions to problems created by violent people.
Violence being, neveertheless, always an option ... :-(
Joerg :
> Cities weren't set up to make political sense, but economical. They were
> designed as safe places for trade and production, not as seats of
> governmental institutions.
What's the difference? Safe places for trade and production *are* political institutions, designed to increase the wealth, power, and prestige of the factions and individuals who control them.
> > The tribes have lost or surrendered no power.
>
> No more than they would to an Issaries market spell, at least
and no less ...
> As Peter pointed out, there is no such thing as a Boldhome tribal
> confederation. The old source has been superseded by the tribal
> confederations as described in CHDP in KoS. There the Dundealos _are_
> affiliated with Swenstown.
Was this also the case in 1600 ?
The old source may be evidence that the Dundealosi switched to a different City Ring sometime after the Lunar occupation started.
Just an idea ... ;-)
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