NB>>> (P&BR p.61 refers to Joraz Kyrem's mercenaries, not to the
>>> Pure Horse People who arrived at Necklace Horse in the 620s).
Me>> So to label Joraz's folk mercenaries and to deny that they were pure
>> horse people is a bit much.
>But the Pure Horse People, who arrived in Prax c.620 ST, somehow survived
>the two and a half centuries prior to Joraz Kyrem's return without
>zebrafying their steeds. This casts doubt on your apparent assertion that
>horses can only survive in Prax by cross-breeding with zebras.
I have never asserted this and one of my very first posts in the Pol Joni thread was that the Grazer Herds (according to Dragon Pass) can survive on the Chaparral. I am opposed to ordinary cattle surviving on the Chaparral.
I brought up the cross-breeding with Zebras to illustrate what I think it would take for an alien beast to become acceptable to Eiritha. The context, you'll remember, was that Nick Hollingsworth posited that the Pol Joni might have done this so that their cattle could graze upon the chaparral. Just because I mention the Zebra tribe as an example does not mean that I believe they were created for the same reasons!
>I agree that this is the only way they have in the past become not-horses
>acceptable to Eiritha ("in bondage, broken from kin"). I submit that there
>is no evidence that the vast majority of the Pure Horse Tribe became zebra
>riders in the 870s, nor that there is evidence that the historic Pure Horse
>Tribe or modern Cattle Bastards of Prax ride "non-horses acceptable to
>Eiritha."
The latter case is not my belief but as for the former case is not so clear. Waha was exceedingly active between 800-830 and thus I think times would have been very difficult for any Pure Horse folk left on the plains. It is only after Too Tall Battle (830) that the heat is off and thus I think they would still be very weak many years later as I don't believe the Too Tall Battle expelled all the Praxians from the Plains. OTOH Joraz Kyrem's own tribe has been very clever and hightailed it to Dragon Pass which ensures better survival.
So, IMO, of the descendants of the Pure Horse People circa 800, the majority of them would be Zebra folk under the leadership of the Arrowsmith Dynasty (circa 870) while there would be a few pure horse clans around the plains.
>I agree that Joraz Kyrem's folk were not mercenaries, but Joraz Kyrem
>did of course hire mercenaries (fighting for land) when in Dragon Pass
>-- the Sun Dome Templars under Arinsor explicitly, and perhaps the horse
>folk reinforcements who became Zebra Riders too.
Joraz was in Dragon Pass _twice_. The first time when Waha appeared and kicked him out of Robcradle and the second time as King when Thog appeared and kicked him out of Pavis. He only hired the Sun Domers on the second trip while the horses came with him on the first.
>And [Joraz's kin] weren't *all* the PHP, either.
Agreed. Exposure to mysteries of both the EWF and the God Learners would have slightly unhinged Joraz. But I think he could have sold the changes to any conservatives in his tribe as part of "obscure prophecies" with the Priestess of Zebra-Eiritha being the alleged Horse Queen.
>Finally, I do not think there is any evidence that the Grazelanders,
>descended from the Second Age Pure Horse People of Prax, and expelled almost
>four centuries *after* Joraz Kyrem's pioneering experiments, ride Zebras.
>This suggests that the Pure Zebra People are a figment, not a fact.
Never suggested this. But Joraz's people did call themselves the Pure Horse People (even if they weren't the only ones) and they did change their horses into Zebras.
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