Here be Dragons...

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:46:22 +1300


Terra incognita:

>Why immortal dragons abdicated their Kralori throne in past history?
>(assassination? disaster? war? IMO, who can kill true-dragon without
>any god-arm or same level dragon?

Immortal Dragons can be killed. Karvanyar killed the Sun Dragon, Sairdites have a short but glorious tradition of Dragon Slaying, the Carmanians have several dragonslayers, such as Survilistor, and lastly the Seshnegi have Sir Herdjan the Raider who killed the Draconic Guardian of Seshnela.

>Sheng cannot kill Godunya.)

He did force Godunya onwards which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

>commiting suicide? draconic final transformation?willing travel to
>Vithela? Do all of them do so desirably?

The final draconic transformation in Kralori thought is _utuma_, self-dismemberment. So committing suicide and draconic transformation are pretty much the same thing.

Yanoor fled onward to avoid the God Learners and the Kralori think that his flight was less than desirable. I'm not aware of any other Dragon Emperors who did so, although some have been forced into temporary exile by some demon or another.

>One dragonewt community surely made absolute pyramid headed with Inhuman
>King and nobles.
>Is there same like extended hierarchy of true dragon?

There is the Cosmic Dragon then the Grand Ancestral Dragon who created the Six Ancestral Dragons (Silence, Secrets, Being, Experience, Thought and Spirit). Then come the True Dragons but I don't know of any hierarchy among them.

>Are not there any Draconic war except between Shang-sha and Godunya in
>Kralorela? Isnt there beautification heroquest of past history?
>Inhuman kings (dragonet) Ryzel and Dragon eye?
>Ingolf versus ewf traditionalists?

There is a civil war or two among the EWF (between Picker-uppers and Up-toppers and between Forwards and Here-and-nows).

I don't know of Ryzel and Dragon Pass ever fighting and the Ralian (barbarian) 'newts have added the Inhuman King against the Trolls.

Further afield there's Dragonewts in Fanzai, Teleos and perhaps Kanthor's Isles but I know of no wars involving them.

David Dunham:

>"In 578 the Empire of the Wyrms Friends was formally established as a
>ruling religious and political body over the Dragon Pass peoples."

"The common title of the Empire of the Wyrms Friends is a relatively late one, constructed out of an icon which was very popular and widespread, and can still be found in many ruins today." [KoS p180]

>As a political entity ruling disparate cultures, calling itself an
>empire, I'm inclined to believe that it really is an empire. It's
>hard to imagine an empire ruled solely by bureaucracy or committee
>over its entire life.

On my bookshelf is a work by Polybius detailing how the Roman Republic, an oligarchy at the time, managed to propel itself into a commanding position over the mediterranean. Penguin (the publishers) has seen fit to label it "The Rise of the Roman Empire" despite the fact that it covers the time before Augustus, Julius Caesar or even Sulla were born.

Then there is the Soviet Union which was run by a self-selecting council (although one can claim that Stalin was Emperor from 1929-53).

>I view the "guiding council" as an Orlanthi
>ring, headed by the Emperor. An Orlanth Dragonfriend devotee of
>sufficient power would of course be indistinguishable from a
>dragon...

Two things.

Orlanth Dragonfriend was not part of the EWF at the very beginning. Orlanth is not mentioned in the First Ring myth [KoS p57] and the Ring of Dragons kills the Priest Orlmandan the Red) _before_ Obduran the Flyer reconciles Orlanth and the Dragons. So the Ring is not neccessarily headed by the ranking Orlanth Dragonfriend and we only know that Obduran sat upon the High Council, not that he headed it.

Secondly even though it had a Council, the leader need not be an Emperor. The Orlanthi may call him an Emperor but its an official title.

>At the time, the Jrusteli didn't have an empire (they didn't until
>789),

They did forcibly incorporate Loskalm into their confederation in 725 which makes it an Empire of sorts then.

>There was however a Stygian Empire.

Ahem! The Autarchy if you must. Stygia and related words are God Learner slanders.

Alex Ferguson:

>Certainly Godunya manifests as Yer Actual Dragon Type Thingie in
>his final struggles with Shang Hsa (MHNBC), as I think was described
>on the Myth of the Month many moons ago.

That merely said he meditated on the Plateau of Statues to wake the Dragons of Kralorela.

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