ME
>If you mean the ancestors of Tusk
>Riders then I can understand them being a distinct Orlanthi people.
>However, they were a remnant of the EWf so presumably spoke some
>sort of EWF language, which you say is Old Pavic, and which I think
>is Auld Wyrmish.
PETER
<< It isn't "according to me". I have stated enough references...>>
ME:
It is only the one line of RQ2 rules book, I think, which states that
ordinary citizens of the EWF spoke Old Pavic (noting that Pavis was not
actually part of the EWF). It doesn't really even state that, it states Old
Pavic "was spoken in" not "was the main language of" or "was spoken
throughout" just "in".
PETER
<< to show
that the Wyrmfriends spoke Auld Wyrmish while the ordinary citizens
spoke Old Pavic. Furthermore there are plenty of other remnants of
the EWF that do not speak Auld Wyrmish or some sort of EWF language,
such as the Beast People and the Ducks. >>
ME
So Old Pavic was the language of the EWF and yet neither ducks nor Beast
People or Tusk Riders spoke it?
PETER
<< We don't even know the precise relationship the Tuskers had with
the EWF. Elder Secrets speaks of their betrayal by the Dragon
King and their inhumanity might have been a curse because they
refused to join the EWF or warred against it. >>
ME:
Interesting speculation but the easiest interpretation is that the 'Dragon
King' is the Inhuman King who betrayed the human leadership of the EWF and
had them all assassinated. Either way, the Tusk Riders were, at some point,
and for some time, part of the EWF.
ME
>The fact that
>you need special Dragon brain/tongue to attain more than 25% in Speak Auld
>Wyrmish, and that normal Old Pavic speakers get 25% in Auld Wyrmish is, I
>think, more than a coincidence.
PETER
So? I'm not denying that the bigwigs of the EWF spoke Auld Wyrmish.
My position is that the vast majority of the ordinary citizens of
the EWF spoke Old Pavic, a theyalan tongue enriched by Auld Wyrmish.
And a nitpick: most of them would have only known Auld Wyrmish
at 7-10% (according to RQ3 rules) which is worse than a stupid
native.
ME:
My position is that the vast majority of the ordinary citizens of the EWF
spoke whatever language they spoke before they became part of the EWF, ie
mostly Theyalan languages, but also Dara Happan. Pure Horse Tongue,
Beastspeech, Seshnegi (possibly, for those Impious Scholars in Nochet)
enriched by Auld Wyrmish. When you say 'most of them' I assume you mean
ordinary citizens speaking Old Pavic, with the Auld Wyrmish percentage
calculated from that. Am I right in thinking the Inhuman King thought that
humans had misuded and misunderstood dracon powers? Do 'stupid natives;
misunderstand things? Are the two related.
A nitpick: RQ2 states that "speakers of Draconic also know Old Pavic at 1/2
their Old Pavic ability" which is pretty weird (dare I say Draconic) even if
it did make sense. (assuming it *meant* that speakers of Draconic knew Old
Pavic at half their Draconic ability then the language conversion is not
reciprocal.
ME
>Another clue is the name Auld Wyrmish, as opposed to just Wyrmish,
>which implies that it was used a long time ago, during the EWF for
>example.
PETER
Auld Wyrmish was used long before the EWF. It is the native
language of the Dragonewts ever since Heart of Weakness was
born (and probably before that too). I don't know of any
seperate language called Wyrmish nor any reason why there should
be one.
ME
I never said there was a seperate language called Wyrmish that was different
to Auld Wyrmish. No one who spoke Old English called it Old English. The
fact that it is refered to (presumably by humans) as Auld Wyrmish seems to me
to indicate that it was a language used long ago (by humans). Vistikos didn't
say "I've learnt a new language, I'm going to call it Old Wyrmish". I don't
suppose the dragonewts refer to their language as Auld Wyrmish either, it is
just modern (1621ST) scholars digging through ancient documents.
ME
>Incidentally I think it is a bit
>of a passing reference in RQ2 to the origins of Old Pavic and in the
>space allocated one wouldn't expect a full analysis of it's history.
PETER
Yet "spoken in the Empire of the Wyrm Friends" and "native humans
still speak it" are pretty unambiguous statements.
ME
Yes, spoken in the Empire of the Wyrm Friends, I don't doubt that Old Pavic
speakers spoke in the Empire, Pavis was on good terms with the EWF after all,
even if it wasn't the main or only tongue. Native humans still speak it, a
point that I have not been argueing against.
Powered by hypermail