> bjm10_at_cornell.edu Trickster Roleplaying Levels
> Alex Ferguson Re: 4 levels; elitism
> Bob Stancliff Inkarne
> Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG Two unrelated questions
> Alex Ferguson Re: Gloranthan names
> Alex Ferguson RE: Exploration HQs
> Tim Names and Games
>
> RULES OF THE ROAD
>
> 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially
> not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated.
> If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show"
> please do. But don't include the whole message you praise.
> 2. Use an appropriate Subject line.
> 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a
> point-by-point basis.
> 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready
> to stand by it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:09:53 -0500 (EST)
> From: bjm10_at_cornell.edu
> Subject: Don't go there, girlfriend.
>
> > Of course you move between levels. Level 3 is the goal, however;
doesn't
>
> Prove that "Level 3 is the goal." Go ahead, I challenge you to do so.
> You will, of course fail. Indeed, I BOAST of your failure and throw it
> in your face!
>
> > Elitism: It's not elitist to have a poetry contest, Olympic games,
> > election, or beer tasting. Some things are just better, in the opinion
of
> > people who have some knowledge of these things. The opinions of
Michael
> > Jackson (the British guy, not the Gloved One) on a beer carry more
weight
> > than an anonymous post on alt.beer. If you don't know me or what I've
> > written or edited, then you may think I'm the guy on alt.beer. I'll
> > compare Gloranthan resumes when I have the time to post; soon, I hope.
>
> When backed to the wall while supporting an untenable position, retaliate
> with a non-sequitor. It's a cheap debating tactic, without merit.
> However, let us examine your record. Okay, so you've thrown up a few
> Glorantha products. So what? What is your publication record in the
> anthropology, sociology, or psychology of play? From what instituted did
> you obtain your PhD in those fields. The fact that you have a vested
> MONETARY interest in the propagation of as much Gloranthan detail as
> possible should render the position you have taken somewhat suspect in
> the mind of any discerning audience. You have claimed that there is but
> one goal in roleplaying in Glorantha. I would like to see evidence that
> THIS statement is true. A mere list of your resume at churning out
> Gloranthan desiderata is no proof. It only shows that such things are TO
> YOUR TASTE. I demand that you demonstrate that these things likewise
> mean that "the 3rd level" truly IS "the goal". You will, of course,
fail.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:03:06 -0500 (EST)
> From: bjm10_at_cornell.edu
> Subject: Trickster Roleplaying Levels
>
> I challenge, indeed I DENY the very premise that there are "levels" to
> roleplaying that can be arranged in a hierarchical premise from worst to
> best. I challenge, indeed I DENY that it is possible to rationally claim
> that there is an ideal level of roleplaying.
>
> I put forth a formal challenge to anyone who disagrees with me to
> RIGOROUSLY DEMONSTRATE that I am in error. I want to see hard evidence,
> not mere statements of personal taste. I want hard evidence for any and
> all absolutes claimed.
>
> Finally, j'accuse!
>
> I accuse those who do maintain that such standards exist are either lying
> or unable to distinguish between true universals and mere personal taste
> and that the latter compound their error by irrationally sticking to
> their guns in the face of all facts contrary.
>
> My accusation is made.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:54 GMT
> From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_cs.ucc.ie>
> Subject: Re: 4 levels; elitism
>
> Martin Crim continues to have problems with his parts of speech:
> > Of course you move between levels. Level 3 is the goal, however;
doesn't
> > mean you can't hit 1 and 2 also.
>
> Not _the_ goal, but _a_ goal, and (apparently) _your_ goal. What we
> have here is a value-judgement about gaming style being applied
> willy-nilly to a) <Bryan Maloney's maiden aunt> rubbish </Bryan
> Maloney's maiden aunt> accepted and indeed 'much-loved' in some
> quarters aspects of Received Glorantha, as being insufficiently
> Tekumelian (doubtless not the preferred adjective, and guess how much
> I care...), and to b) piss on other people's games from a great height
> for seeming no reason at all other than the sheer 'joy' of doing so.
>
>
> The point on 'elitism' I shall decline to reply to under the doctrine
> of 'handle explosive materials with care'. (i.e., if I did, I likely
> would.)
>
> Slan,
> Alex.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:08 -0500
> From: "Bob Stancliff" <stanclif_at_ufl.edu>
> Subject: Inkarne
>
> >>> - Feathered Horse Queen ("Inkarne")
>
> >> I'm fairly certain Inkarne is not the Feathered Horse Queen. My guess
> >> is she's the Butterfly Princess of Holay.
>
> >I agree that Inkarne is from Holay by birth. However, she seems to be
> >FHQ-trained. Whether that makes her a full-blown FHQ is doubtful, but on
> >the other hand, the Grazers seem to have accepted her as sovereignty
> >priestess.
>
> KoS made a large effort to present information suggesting that Argrath
> married multiple women after the Hero Wars started, and then the
> conclusion tried to reconcile the stories to show that they are the same
> woman. As I read it the sequence goes something like this...
> When Argrath starts the war, the Feathered Horse Queen is married. His
> 'marriage' in that period is a contract to marry the baby, the next FHQ.
> A few years later there is another 'marriage' which is really a betrothal
> ceremony to cement the agreement with the child. When Inkarne reaches
> maturity, the real marriage occurs with all of the gifts, etc.
> The sequence is certainly not unheard of in Medieval times, though
> usually both of the promised are children, and the contract is between
> parents.
> Before this, he has apparently stopped or slowed his aging process, so
> waiting 16 years for a wife gives him something to look forward to
without
> unfortunate problems due to age.
> It is also possible to reconcile the Argrath stories with the Argrath of
> Pavis story. It helps if you are willing to make some adjustments to the
> story-teller's sequence of events, or at least work with the
understanding
> that Argrath was maintaining multiple identities until the Cradle came.
> Stancliff
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:03:00 -0500
> From: "Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG" <Bernuetz.Oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca>
> Subject: Two unrelated questions
>
> Hi all,
>
> 1) What colour is a troll's skin?
>
> 2) Why does Orlanth have a thief's aspect?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Oliver D. Bernuetz
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:09:46 GMT
> From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_cs.ucc.ie>
> Subject: Re: Gloranthan names
>
> Peter Metcalfe writes of:
> > those whingers who bitch about how this partial translation
> > just _ruins_ glorantha for them are strangely reticient when the
> > same practice is applied to personal names like:
>
> [Characteristically copious list of examples]
>
> I presumed, myself, that they were merely 'lazily evaluating' their
> pointed complaints about same. Having done those, clearly next
> on the target list would be any noun one uses in a game session to
> refer to a game-world object. "No, it's not a <disdainful expression>
> 'horse', it's a hymalingar!"
>
> Whether anyone would go so far as a Gaelic summer school 'Bearla rule'
> (speak Sartarite or go home) is a straw man/reductio ad absurdum
> argument I'll save up until this thread gets even more partisan
> and silly, to wit, hopefully will never actually be deployed...
>
> Cheers,
> Alex.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:43:03 GMT
> From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_cs.ucc.ie>
> Subject: RE: Exploration HQs
>
> Nikk Effingham:
> > Illuminated deities aside, the gods have things about them that never
change.
>
> This is a bit like that old saw, treason shall never prosper, since if it
> did, who would dare call it treason?
>
> Are there immutable platonic objects (Mike Cule's favourite mystic
> elephants), of which mortal worshippers just get to select different
> 'views' of, actually accomplishing no change whatsoever? Is the
> divine entirely mutable, and the apparent stability just because
> CA's hypothetical axe-weilding maniac subcult not called 'Chalana
> Arroy' anymore? Does some more moderate intermediate position
> pertain?
>
> As I always say on these occassions: it'd be impossible to tell in
> Glorantha which of these was the case; how much less chance do we
> have of sorting out these effectively 'observationally equivalent'
> situations from _this_ world, beyond the level of having a 'theory'
> or a 'operating assumption' about it?
>
> Oh, for the record I think Greg, from what he's said at Cons, agrees
> with Nikk, but my remarks apply as much to Greg as they do to anyone
> else.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:44:30 -0000
> From: "Tim" <Tim_at_edonaris.screaming.net>
> Subject: Names and Games
>
> re - Digest 228, I have to applaud Nick Brooke's comments on the names
> issue....... frankly, revisionism would be one of the surest ways of
killing
> Glorantha.... for me, even Hero Wars is going to have to be pretty darn
> tooting to get me to keep buying it, after the initial book.. since, to
be
> honest, my budget is limited these days, and I buy these things as
> supplements for my own pleasure, since Role Playing is virtually dead in
the
> UK, it seems (certainly is amongst the younger set..... the Games club at
my
> local Uni is nearly extinct. kept alive by a group of 30 - somethings,
and
> Magic players....) In my experience, most gamers don't really care if a
town
> is called "fredsplace" or "Freydiscarlsvig".. except that the weird
names
> get mispronounced, half forgotten etc.....
>
> Enough ranting!
>
> The Sword of Humakt is not a "usable" treasure, by the way.. it merely
> increases the numbers you kill if you select the "kill as many as you
can"
> option on the combat screens. Anyway. am off to see what the Earthshakers
do
> in combat! ;-))
>
> Tim Minas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #229
> ***********************************
>
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