KoDP frustrations (raided by ducks, again...)

From: Roger McCarthy <rogermccarthy_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:18:49 GMT


I can second most of Gazza's points re KoDP frustrations particularly on the pointlessness of splitting the clan - once you get your clan up to 1200 pop (which is the minimum you need to compete effectively in the later stages of the game when every enemy clan has 20+ weaponthanes and 200 or more footmen) you have to waste most of your actions each year sending your surplus footmen off on pointless exploratory expeditions or suicidal visits to Cragspider with your surplus nobles (I've now done this so many times she's started sending Trollkin back to threaten me which is worrying...)just to keep the clan from from splitting, or if you get bored with that you can resort to filling the ring with second-string nobles because you know you're going to be forced to reorganise the ring soon to avoid a split anyway.

Quite apart from lessening realism by forcing you into actions a real Orlanthi clan wouldn't take for purely game reasons ('Go exploring up north with just one weaponthane and three footmen as escort when the last twelve expeditions never returned - not on your nellie mate') this also contradicts the canonical KoS Report on the Orlanthi which IIRC states that Orlanthi clans typically range from 500-2000 pop and implies that 1200 is the norm rather than the exception

In addition the new clan that splits off is usually so small that if it were a player clan it would be shut down as unviable within a couple of seasons!

The other major difference with KoS is the ubiquity of Chalana Arroy, Issaries, LM, Vingan, Elmali, Odaylan and Uraldan nobles and shortage of Orlanthi and Ernaldans - I've had several Ernaldan peace clans without a single Ernaldan noble for decades at a time until like London buses several turn up at once (real shortage of Uroxi though - I've only seen three in a dozen clans and several hundred game years so just as well there isn't an Urox and the Devil heroquest - and maybe only five or six Humakti although I suppose that also makes sense).

Other than the game need to have seven different deities on the Ring can this be rationalised as meaning that effectively all devotees of the major Orlanthi specialist deities that live with a clan are ex-officio members of the outer ring - at least in the 1300's ? (possibly by the 1600's position in a bloodline and inherited wealth and status have become far more important).

This does seem to make more sense once you've broken out of the mechanistic RQ standardised cult structure/number of initiates to support a temple/power points sacrificed mindset into a Hero Wars one where the individuals personal link to the deity and ability to emulate him/her/it is the basis of magic.

Would also second the point about repetition of random clan events - my current clan has had Rangarda and her bloody horse saga and the squabbling merchants repeat themselves two or three times each in under 60 years. If there's any future updates (and I certainly hope the game will be successful enough to make them profitable)new random events would be a high priority - maybe the Digest could supply suggestions.

On the need for a cancel option I've had so many disastrous heroquest experiences (and you can't get much worse than having a flourishing clan all eaten by a chaos monster in the course of a year AND the maps all going wrong as well because of one failed Issaries the Conciliator quest) due to my less than perfect laptop trackpad-thing that I'm having to Save and Restore more or less every year - which both slows down play and creates the irresistable temptation to keep re-running the quest until you get it right.

On trade, other than running out of sheep my other perennial problem is accumulating a giant horse herd which I can't trade away because no-one will trade you food or cattle when you need them and once you've got over a hundred horses they breed faster than you can sell them or give them out to new weaponthanes - of course we could just eat them but being English I can't bring myself to slaughter horses unless there's a famine (wouldn't it be kinda interesting if some Orlanthi clans actually have firm taboos against eating horse, while the stricter Horse-spawn won't eat anything else)

Surely as the game progresses trade opportunities should get bigger rather than smaller as clans acquire larger and larger herds, generate bigger food and goods surpluses and start specialising in particular products while explorers open up new trade routes and tribes combine to put down banditry? Instead the game seems to drive my clans to retreat into isolationist autarky where the most common form of contact with neighbours is to raid them.

OK, maybe in game terms the point IS to force clans to either do Uralda's Blessing or raid whenever they need more cows, but IMO trade would definitely be a safer and more realistic option in most cases (particularly if you're the clan's sole Uraldan...) - in fact having played KoDP a few times I can now see how the relative peace and plenty of the Lunar Way might start to look attractive to Orlanthi who want more out of life than raiding, being raided and being dragooned into supporting yearly heroquests...

Only serious bug encountered so far is the strange case of the disappearing tribal king - I nursed a thriving clan (with 3 great temples, 4 ordinary temples, shrines to everyone else and over 3,300 sheep so it can be done !) right through to the 1390's with several heroic and half a dozen renowned ring members, an average magic reserve up in the 70's or higher and six heroquests completed (it would be seven if I could work out which bit of Humakt to heal)only to find that my tribal king had somehow disappeared - the tribe screen just started saying (IIRC) 'your tribe currently has no king' - even though the clan saga states that we definitely elected one 15 years ago and he's not died or stood down since - thus killing off any chances of my progressing further towards winning with this clan.

However despite all these whinges KoDP is still a great game and maddeningly addictive - as any of my family who were spared the pleasure of my company over Xmas and New Year can attest.

For an example of how it's playable even by someone who's never heard of Glorantha and doesn't play RPG's, my ten-year old niece's clan is currently doing far better than mine despite or because of adopting a full-on war clan strategy of systematically attacking all of your neighbours until they pay you tribute or abandon their tula's.

I also think the the quality of the Digest has started to improve again now there's actually a playable game product available to discuss rather than interminable circular argumemts over whether Old Pavic was a Theyalan language - so here's hoping Hero Wars will somehow manage to make it into the shops for February...



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