Gian reckons:
>I believe that the basic model (not the only one, but the fundamental one)
>in Greg's mind for the Lunar History and Religion is the Islam Empire of
>early middle-ages...
>
>...In my Greg-learner POV, the Author used the Islam Empire as a model, but
>chose among its neighbours (India, Byzantium, Rome) the names and words that
>confound our minds.
Close but no cigar it seems; Eric:
>>Just to add to the fun, I showed this post to Greg. His comment was that
>>if everything he wrote was based on terrestrial events, then this would
>>be pretty close. As it stands though, he doesn't. The basic premise for
>>the Lunar empire is the Persian Empire (which is why the Islam model fits
>>so well). However, there are many Roman, Byzantine, Basque, and other
>>made up things as well influencing the Lunar model.
Hey, I gave up trying to peer into Greg's mind a long, long time. Second-guessing Greg is the first step to gibbering madness.
What I'd rather do is attempt to *change* his mind on things I feel strongly about, or at least alter GAG-reality by presenting resonating alternatives.
>I read with interest your comments and refutations about my anti-byzantine
>and anti-Roman theories on Lunar Empire.
>
>Now I present you my complete (?) theory on it, having learned that at least
>some of you are interested in this matter, as long as they keep trying to
>demolish my opinions.
>
>You say "believe anything, provided you cease annoying us".
>I say "follow me":
Interestingly, just about everything you put up here about the "Islam Empire" could equally apply to the Byzantines!
>- -The Islam Empire was ground based (as long as the byzantines and Danes
were
>masters of the Mediterranean Sea)
The Byzantines were an important land power. While it was a major naval power at its peaks, the Mediterranean ceased to be a "Roman Lake" centuries earlier, and naval power gradually fell into the control of foreigners and mercenaries, such as the Venetians. Despite their secret super-weapon (Greek Fire), many historians seem to have a pretty low opinion of Roman naval power, both Old and New.
>- -It occupied and thrived over a former ancient Empire (the Persian One)
with
>a strong culture, a sky-fire oriented godhood, flourished along a river
>valley, but soon the Muslims built their own capital (Baghdad), the
>many-towered city; they had their holy city, from which the Prophet came,
>different from the capital.
The Byzantines occupied and thrived over a former ancient Empire (the "Roman" Empire, which in many ways was different to their own, despite the similar titles, etc.), they too had a strong culture which was envied and emulated by those around them, their religion was at least partly based on Mithraic-sun worship (though don't expect anyone to admit that) and they had a magnificent, purpose-built capital (Constantinople). They also had a holy city - unfortunately lost to the Muslims - which they tried to get back with the help of the Crusaders (with disastrous consequences).
>- - It partially occupied and fought many undecisive battles , for
centuries,
>in a region (the middle-east) which, as Dragon Pass, was crucial for
>innumerable civilizations before and after it.
And who was the Muslim's primary rival for this "crucial" territory?
>- - Its symbol was the moon (least, but not last element).
Interestingly, the symbol for the ancient city of Byzantium (upon which Constantinople was built) was the Moon [see Runciman "The Fall of Constantinople 1453" (1965)].
>- - It was revered for its culture and science, feared for its armies, hated
>for its religion, all over the known world.
As were the Byzantines...
>- - It had serious troubles only from the eastern nomads of the steppes
>(Turks, Mongols)
As did the Byzantines (not directly from the Mongols, but from the Turks and other eastern nomads anyway)
>- - It had a celestial and doctrinal foe, the Christian God.
It had a celestial and doctrinal foe, the Muslim God.
>- - Many times it was on the verge of taking his foes' capital (Byzantium)
and
>was many times repulsed.
OK, they never, ever got close to doing this, though earlier on in the Late Roman period they had a serious go. However, I'm not sure how this corresponds to the Lunar Empire: whose capital were the Lunars on the verge of taking many times?
>- -It sacked many of his enemy's strongholds (Boldhome, Furthest, Pavis/
>Alexandria, Damascus, Antiochia) without defeating him.
Likewise the Byzantines. However, the Lunars not only sacked Boldhome, Furthest and Pavis, they comprehensively defeated their enemies and occupied these cities, incorporating them into their Empire. Furthest is even inside the Glowline.
>- - It tried to initially tolerate then to convert any people it met.
The Byzantines were just as evangelical as their Muslim rivals.
>- -CARMANIA is the ancient name of a region in Southern Iran/Persia (this is
>my coup-de-teatre); in modern terms it is called Kirman.
I wouldn't read too much into this. "Narnia" was the name of a town in Etruria, but I don't see much in "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" that makes me think CS Lewis was creating a conscious analogue of ancient Italy. The "Plaines of Prax" come from a Dr Suess book, "Corflu" was named after a brand of typist's correction fluid and "Nochet" was so-named because it was a dot on the map that hadn't been given a name yet ("Hey Greg, have you given this city a name?" "Not yet").
>Nothing, I just beg for your approval or refusal...
You got it. As I said in my earlier post, I think direct translations from the RW to Glorantha are nowhere near as effective, exciting or imaginative as deliberate amalgams from across a wide range of cultures and the ages.
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