>Me : <<I think that Western Heroquesting is probably
a
> Hollywood special effects version of having a Crisis
> in Faith - anyone seen 'Dogma' ? ;-)>>
>Gian : Heroquesting is a way in which a Gloranthan,
> even a Western one, willingly tries to change the
> world and/or a cult.
Erm, not *quite*. Most heroquests are magical rituals that aim to preserve the world and/or a cult as it is.
But, from the questor's POV, it's a dynamic process of interaction with the world and its myths, enacting a deep personal change (most likely via crisis) which will, hopefully, create greater harmony between the questor and his world. (And he also gets lots of magical goodies to go adventuring with)
If the questor actually tries to change the world *willingly*, he'll be up against so much magical opposition that his chances of surviving the quest will be _minimal_, unless he's the Arkat/Harrek/Jesus Christ type ...
see forthcoming Hero Wars rules, Bible, and Digests passim ...
> 'Willingly' is the key word in this sentence. You
> think that Jesus was deliberately going to doubt
> himself when he cried "God, Why did you abandon
> me?".
So this heroquest of Jesus' was unwilling, then?
It's very common to get sucked into a HQ entirely against your will. Campbell's 'Call to Adventure' and 'Refusing the Call' stages ...
> A dogma, then, is another thing: dogma is not the
> real, sensible world,
No, it's a movie.
Alex :
>> > You're telling me Paul believed there was
>> > no 'evidence' for the existence of God? That
>> > surprises me, a tad...
>> Not quite ; He *knew* God personally ; but he also
>> knew that other people generally don't, and asks
>> them to simply have faith in the Gospels (and in
>> Greek philosophy).
> Once again returning us to the central semantic
> quibble at the root of this discussion: is the
> validity of Greek philosophy, and the testimony of
> the Gospels, and of others with direct personal
> experience of god (like himself, and subsequent
> types) 'no evidence'?
As far as I'm concerned, this isn't 'central' at all. This isn't the Dogma Digest after all.
(Well, not always, anyway ...)
The only central issue I can see is that this quibbling goes back to Antiquity, and can be imported into Glorantha more or less as is, without feeling guilty about ruining Glorantha and its Ancient World flavour.
Julian Lord
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