Me>>I am not misunderstanding anything, thank you very much.
> Ah, yes. Of course. Thanks for clearing that up.
Well when putting forward my own PoV (or even when correcting people's misconceptions about mystics leaving hell as quickly as possible), I don't tell people that they are mistaken.
> You'll understand if I don't simply take your word for it, I hope.
Why not? You never seem to take the word of the published sources about the draconic nature of Darudism.
>>[The instant torture camp] is too cruel for [the punishment of
>>criminals and dissidents].
> It is remarkable how cruelly states can treat their criminals and
>dissidents.
Kralorela is not a state in the traditional sense of the word. Its rulers prefer to govern through goodwill which makes them much weaker than Orlanthi Kings. The Mandarins are powerless in large sections of the cities and at night. The practitioners of the most hated of deviations, Immanent Mastery, can be found in any city and as a tolerated faith in the army. This hardly sounds like the sort of regime that operates instant torture camps to punish.
Furthermore the Kralori method of dealing with deviant faiths is encapsulated in the following statement from Troll Gods p29 "Whenever a priest of the Black Sun gains too much prominence, the Kralori rulers of the Kingdom of Ignorance act quickly, working to suppress, oust, or promote the priest to a position of impotence".
>>Furthermore Kralorela would just simply execute such criminals for
>>the Underworld to purify them.
> Doesn't have quite the same terrifying effect.
Who cares? The Mandarins are not in the business of terrifying people. The demons of the underworld are easily contacted, readily divulge the punishments they inflict on their charges and take bribes from the living kin to make the punishment less painful...
Me>>[Dave's contention that Sheng was placed in the camps because the
>>Kralori wanted to hurt him] contradicts the published information
>>that he volunteered for these camps, having served as an ordinary
>>slave for a few years after his submission.
>It doesn't contradict the published information at all. Why do you
>think they allowed him to volunteer? Because they hated him, and it
>was the worst thing they could think of.
If they _really_ hated him then, surely they would have confined him to the instant torture camps without waiting for him to volunteer?
> Sheng had his own reasons for entering the camps - but to quote
>from that exact published source 'he volunteers for the worst punishment',
>apparently because in his pride he finds torture better than demeaning
>slavery.
And the Kralori are waiting for a hated slave's permisson before they can do anything nasty to him?
> (in Martin Lauries story that originates the camps, he has a choice
>of entry only in that he could have chosen death instead.
Martin's story does not originate the camps. I've heard about how Sheng Seleris got his power before Martin even appeared on the digest (with a posting about the cult of Sartar IIRC).
>Some revision has occurred since then, but I think its pretty clear
>the camps were always intended as pure nasty).
I do not recall saying that the camps were not pure nasty.
>But that doesn't mean the torture camps are a primarily mystic
>institution - there are a brutal tool of repression and punishment
>first.
This contradicts massively what is known about Kralori government in general.
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