Re: Instant Torture Camps

From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_yeats.ucc.ie>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:30:43 GMT


Nils Weinander:
> I think the ITCs started as a mystic school, radical
> NiangMaoists who took the austerities of this school to the
> extreme: "if starving and freezing is good, then torture is
> even better".
>
> Eventually, an enterprising mandarin may have realized that
> the camps could be used for other purposes as well. Stick a
> prisoner there and there are two possible outcomes:

This is pretty much what I was suggesting; regard the connection to NiangMao as at best penciled in, though, since discussion of this topic with greg proved.. problematic, on an earlier occasion.

> Slightly related, I don't quite buy the sentiment that
> Sheng Seleris "stumbled on the final hurdle".

That's a ITC practisioner POV statement (or more generally mystic POV at large).

> He never
> intended to pass it, but started off on his journey with
> the explicit purpose of bailing out just before liberation,
> just like Oorsu Sara.

Neither of them are around to ask, so speculation in either direction, in either case, seems at least potentially valid. But for SS, I don't think he originally intended _either_ -- he was just being a total Pentan Hard Ass(TM) about it all, until he got to that question, whereupon he thought -- hey, *that* sounds worth the candle!

Self-conscious abuse of mysticism is almost impossible, IMO. It's about psychic self-transformation -- how can one propose to accomplish this, and still hold on to the petty, selfish agenda one started out with? It's truly remarkably unlikely, I think: those trying to cling to some ancillary part of themselves are needlessly handicapping their attempts at identification with the Ultimate.

Cheers,
Alex.


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