>> Dave Pearton writes:
I generally have most people beat in this particular area, but that's neither here nor there...
> >I think what is being missed in this is that societies don't evolve
> >through entirely rational military paths. There are any number of
> >responses or evolutions that a culture makes that don't make much sense
> >when viewed from a purely military (or economic, or social - depending on
> >which angle you look at things) angle, but might be perfectly
> >understandable when viewed from another perspective. There are countless
> >examples where, even when faced by a long-term threat, a society did not
> >develope the most "rational" _military_ response. This might be for
> >example an inherant conservatism in the culture, religious reasons,
> >economics, the desire for the elites not to have anything erode their
> >powerbase, etc. All of these are exacerbated in Glorantha where not
> >behaving like your ancestors, for example, has real and tangible
> >effects!
>
> I agree with this summation of the often illogical things people and cultures
> do. The world is not full of Spocks and as such exhibits odd behaviour on
> many occasions. My view is that military evolution is what would happen if
> all things were in place. Naturally this never happens so the evolution is
> often skewed and sometimes _devolution_! There are too many variables to be
> smug about it.
You're missing the point! People or cultures are _not_ doing illogical things. They are using a calculus different from one that only looks at the most immediate threat (for example). It is precisely this "logic" that is meant when, for example, Loskalm will lose to the Kingdom of War if it defeats them militarily if they do so by becoming what they most despise. Sometimes a "devolution" (sic - whatever the hell that might be?) is a winning strategy. It all depends on the bigger picture.
> >The danger, therefore, of looking at responses to a particular pressure
> >from only a military (or social, or economic) perspective is that you
> >potentially miss a great deal of other reactions and responses.
>
> Yes, there are awlays other factors. Conversely, I've met many a
> sociologist, historian, economist etc who has consistently underplayed the
> value of military evolution. Niall Fergusons recent book on WW1 - "The Pity
> of War" was a classic example of a non-militarist writing about a very
> military subject and missing vital info out in his conclusions. Anyway, mea
> culpa, I do this, but so do you Dave! We all do :)
Yep, there are always wierd analyses of history based on particular points of view. This is always the problem when you only look at one aspect of a culture. For example if you look at the Rathori without taking into account that they are by (religious=magical) nature very conservative. If they change that very much, they cease to be Rathori. In addition - and I have less experience of the american continental wildlife than that of africa, but I do have a substantial amount - I do believe that bears are by nature a fairly solitary bunch (I can quote the density figures for brown and black bears if you really want) I doubt that the Rathori are that prone to large gatherings! And if they do not do so socially, I find even less reason they should do so militarily. This is what I mean by significant barriers to a "rational" (sic) military response.
> >I think that, particularly in Glorantha, one must take a more holistic
> >view or cultural evolution.
>
> I think that we can take all of those things into account, and I try to do
> so. Believe it or not, before I worked out Imperial manpower requirements I
> had to sketch out the basic economic model of the Empire to determine pay
> scales and sources of revenue. I also take into account the problems of a
> culture beset by long spells of peace in its military evolution, like the
> Lunar Empire.
Yes, but, for example, if the Arrolians have a basic distrust of the military similar to that of a culture that has been subjected to a forced draft for an unjust/unworthy war for a length of time then they will be less likely to be happy to jump at a military option to things.
I do belive that you have worked out the military logistics of the empire in painstaking detail. I also believe that the phrase "the problems of a culture beset by long spells of peace in its military evolution" is fairly frightening. A culture _beset_by_long_spells_of_peace_? Lieber Gott! Um, isn't this when cultures make their most significant (non-military) advances? Forgive me if this particular phraseolgy doen't make me feel all that much better.
> >The Arrolians, for example, seem to have a tendancy toards pacifism,
> >inclusiveness and "equality" that would tend to inhibit the growth of a
> >stratified society and a military/feudal elite. In particular they reject
> >the lunar empire model - highly stratified, militarised and expansive.
>
> The Lunars are mostly unstratified, very lightly militarised and expansive
> only in a marginal way.
And the Arrolians even less so. So why are you so insitant that they would have devloped a highly developed response system and military elite in such a short time in response to sporadic rathori raiding?
> >Zoria, in particular, is not going to react to the threat of raiders in
> >a classical military fashion or they wouldn't be Zoria anymore...
>
> True, I can't begin to imagine the composition of their field regiments. The
> Whips and Chains regiment is probably pretty nasty.
Well, it depends on your perspective... doesn't it ;)
> Martin Laurie
The cults for SGU:
No more detail on Sedenya or Rufelza than in the Hero Wars book? Isn't this pretty much the basis of the lunar way? Maybe I'm missing something. I understand the importance of getting as wide as representaion as possible, but one has to have the basics, doesn't one?
Maybe I'm being to picky, but it is better to worry now that when it might be too late!
Yak
The Hunting of the Snark, Lewis Carroll
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End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #538
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