> My answer would be 'yes', but I think its clear that the official
version
>would have to say 'no'.
Not the Red Emperor, but a Emperor.
<< I do like MOB's interpretation of this, and hopefully the final write-up can have enough ambiguity to support both the old and new views.>>
> Agreed.
I intend to leave as much ambiguity as possible to facilitate this.
<< >The leaders of these groups - though not necessarily their >followers - know what they're doing, but do it anyway because its the best >chance they're going to get.
Yes. There are other reasons too. You have to remember that many of the higher ups in the Empire are heroes or deities in their _own right_ which creates the problem of many of them thinking they could do a better job, which is why Argenteus gets offed. >>
> Not really much of an 'other' reason, IMO,
Really? Bloody hell! This is a major reason IMO. I think this is the primary reason why Argenteus gets it. Others disagree with Imperial policy, so they assasinate the Emperor and see what happens next. Ignifer being an example of that.
>but, yes, that's exactly what
>I was talking about. Note that I'm not disputing that this is interesting,
>merely saying that it isn't (to me) *as* interesting as I had previously
>thought it to be.
Fair enough.
<< >Clearly this is not a dull and uninteresting set-up, but is it as much >fun as the Previous Version (for lack of a better name)?
There is no previous version. >>
> Perhaps I should have tried harder to think of a better name ;-). I'm
>not saying that the PV was in any way official, and I don't deny for a
moment
>that if Greg wants to have a singular Emperor, that's absolutely his
>prerogative. As I said later in my post, just because its more interesting
>doesn't make it true. Well, it may IMG, but different people find different
>things interesting, so it wouldn't necessarily be much of a guideline for
>canonical Glorantha. Sometimes good idea will get ditched; it's a pity, but
>unavoidable.
Yes, I suppose it is, still not an easy pill to swallow for those who see a cherished concept fall by the wayside. I hope that SGU will not step on too many toes but will instead provide oodles of new info for people to explore the Empire with.
Yes,, but the newly revealed Emperor is not necessarily the real Emperor. >>
> But according to you (I think) its obvious to those with real power
>which one is which.
Even they have problems. There are ways of fooling them, there are ways of undercutting them by changing the mix of people at the top and simply, they have to actually do the tests to get a result. Since this isn't always possible, often due to interference, then you have plenty of options.
>The plebs wouldn't know, but that's not what I'm getting
>at.
The "plebs" is pretty much everyone. That is a lot of people.
<< There could be a dozen people claiming this>>
> And the argument 'but hang on, mate, I know you and you've had a
previous
>life, so you can't possibly be the Red Emperor' wouldn't hold any sway? If
>not, why not?
Sure it would but who is going to know this? The vast majority of folk would not know. Anyway, they could always just _lie_. Besides, the _other_ guys are denying our Emperor, so they must be traitors and thus ignorable. How many pretenders to the throne existed in the RW? Loads and some did rather well.
Once they knew who he was and agreed that he was the real deal. Not at all clear cut.>>
> From what you've said so far, I can't see how this could possibly be the
>case. Yes, there might be confusion until he turns up and reveals himself,
>but until he does how could anybody else pull off the masquerade? Seize the
>throne yes, but pretend to be the real, singular Red Emperor? How would you
>do it?
The Red Emperor is so called cos of his crimson glow. You can't replicate that unless you're one of his children and a major Lunar magician - oh wait a minute, the Emperor is loaded with those guys!
In addition, the Emperor has changed face so often, that while this works for him in some ways it works against him in many others too. It would be quite easy to represent the new "Mask" as being the Emperors new form and way of governing the Empire. Some wouldn't buy it but a lot would.
>I'm obviously missing something here...
What you are missing, it seems to me, is the political possibilities, the lack of info and the ambiguity that the citizens fo the Empire live with. Just because _we_ know something solidly, it doesn't mean that _they_ do in Glorantha. The room for maneuver here is huge.
I disagree. I think it would be different but no less interesting. >>
> Yup, that's the core of our disagreement at the moment. Rather
>subjective though, so, unless you can persuade me I've completely
>misunderstood what you're saying (always possible), its a matter of taste
and
>consequently kind of hard to argue...
Hope I've done some persuading, but if not, how you run your Glorantha is up to you.
Martin Laurie
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #573
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