bjm writes (sorry no sig IIRC it's "Brian" but didn't want to get it wrong):
>> USSR was a construct as much of American paranoia as of reality. And
>> Socialism is not a dirty word here. I have voted socialist all my life and
>
>I guess you never had relatives or relatives of friends killed by great
>brave Soviet Socialist soldiers merely for being a priest or a member of a
>priest's family.
As easily said about Brave Capitalist Soldiers - brits in ireland, india, africa, dare I say it malvenas isles ? ditto US in vietnam, korea, grenada, etc. France in Algeria.. you get the picture.
lIkewise priests and churches throughout history involved in perecution of jews or muslims or other christians sects or unbelievers. - In no way justifying their own persectuion at the hands of others either I rapidly add. In recent memory catholic support for Franco's spanish fascists, famously Irish bishops blessing the *pro-fascist* voluinterers sailing out of ireland to fight *for* Franco, whilst vilifying the anti-Franco volunteers who fought against fascism.
*No* idealogy has its hands clean.
>> America) have about Socialism. Yet the Soviet Union was an atrocious state,
>> with hypocrisy, corruption and down-right evil from the top downwards. In
>
>In other words, the reality of Socialism is very different from the mask
>it shows the world. Didn't you previously state that the badness of the
>Soviet Union was just an American fantasy?
To repeat myself, as easily said about capitalism. Constant media usage of "democracy" and "openess" as being somehow innately identitical to "capitalism" doesn't mean that is not at the very least a debateable point. Capitalism has plenty of masks, notably "choice". We all have the choice to drive rolls royces of course (the mask). Actually only those with the money to do so are able to exercise this choice or right, it is a complete illusion for the rest of us (the reality). We are all subject to the same laws and law enforcement and have the same rights (mask). When was the police force last used against a few wealthy capitalists rather than their more numerous employees in an industrial action ? (reality) - the rights of the wealthy few are protected against the rights of the less wealthy in practice.
>What makes the tourist propaganda of the USSR any more true than that of any
>other state?
nothing, much of it was lies. lots of terrible atrocities happened throught soviet history. but it's easy to fight the dragon on the other side of the world. there are always dragons at home.
sorry to continue a way off topic discussion. - Chris
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