Matthew Thale:
> Kristoph,
> According to my dictionary, greed means excessive desire. It is often
> excessive desire for wealth, but one can have excessive desire for
> power as well. I believe that greed is the common thread that binds
> most, if not all of the historical figures that you mentioned. So, to
> answer your question, Julius Caesar, William the Conqueror, Napoleon,
> Lenin, Hitler and Stalin were greedy. Not all of them expressed their
> greed in the same way, but I believe that they were greedy.
OK, Matt, thank you: I stand corrected. In my french-english dictionary, it doesn't say that, it only translates it as desire for wealth. Unfortunately, I don't have an english-english dictionary, yet... I've learned something today. By the way, why the "K" on my first name ?!? ;o)
(America, Amerika, Amerikkka... ) (?!)
Gian:
> I don't know whether in English this is clear enough, but...
For me at least, it is.
Gian:
>>The real engine for war never was religion, ever was human greed!>>
>
> When I speak about Greed, I mean any greed: for money, power, fame et
> cetera.
OK, sorry. Power lust I can accept. Fame too. Money, only a little bit; a very little bit...
> <<"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. All great men were
> evil men." Lord Acton>>
>
> This is a bad sillogism.
> Do any great man possesses power?
> I don't believe so.
> It depends on your definition of "greatness".
It's not mine, it's Acton's. By "great men", he meant statesmen. It didn't include great scientists, great thinkers, great businessmen, great artists or any other kind of truly great people.
Gian:
> An Italian politician used to say "Power corrupts those that don't have it".
> I laugh at his paraphrasing of Acton's, but praise him above the original.
Ha, ha, ha !!! Funny. :o)
Graham:
> This is getting wildly off topic, but that never seems to stop us...
Right, it never does, does it ? I wonder why ?!!
"Nobody can force you to do anything !" Umath'Law
Me:
>>Yeah, sure... Come on, Gian, that's bullshit ! Was Alexander the Great
>>greedy ? Were Julius Caesar, William the Conqueror, Napoleon, Lenin, Hitler
>>& Stalin greedy ?!?
Graham:
> Yes - they all went to excessive lengths to gain personal power and hold
> on to it. Whether they were greedy for more tangible rewards seems hardly
> relevant. True some of them did have some more altruistic tendencies -
> Napoleon and the Soviets both improved the education systems, for example
> - - but basically they were motivated by a basic lust for power. That comes
> under the heading of greed in my book.
OK, "basic lust for power", powermongering, that's what I meant. Considering "improvements", I don't think you can speak of them in a vacuum. One should take a balance sheet approach to history & account for the "losses" of any regime compared with its "profits." Clearly then, Napoleon & the Soviets didn't bring any *net* improvement to mankind's lot, with the sovs, of course, as much worse offenders than Bonaparte.
Give me a greedy & selfish materialistic bastard anytime ! "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", so help me god from the bloody altruists !!! As we say in french: "Qui veut faire l'ange, fait la bête !"
Graham:
> Not being an expert on Lenin and Stalin, I'll not comment on their
> personal lives, but given Hitler was noted as a collector and consumer of
> fine wines and fine art, the 'asthetic' defence seems bogus to me.
OK, I forgot that, I was thinking of his vegetarianism, his opposition to smoking as well as to his few personal assets. Compared to Goering & Beria, Hitler & Stalin were pretty ascetic. (By the way, it is really written as "ascetic" & "asceticism"... :) ;) :)
Christoph Kohring http://www.proLibertate.org
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